Help! First drive in 6 months didn't go so well.

[stricker76]

Long story short, 1998 C2500 has been parked for 6 months and i have been slowely working on it when time permited. Finally got it ready for the road, and go to take it to work to do the exhaust. Get about a mile down the road and she starts stumbling. Another hundred feet and she won't rev over 1500. Get the truck turned around and heading back home, and it won't do anything over idle, not even enough to get the truck rolling. So i call the wife to come tow me home, and once in the driveway i try starting it. Starts fine and i can rev it up to almost 2000, but then she starts stumbling again and its right back down to 800 rpm within 30 seconds. Then i notice that its also pouring out the black smoke when i try to rev it up (pitch black outside, so i couldn't tell before). Any help is greatly appreciated. Hope its nothing major.

 

[DEERE3594]

how old is the Fuel filter? Where is the PMD? how many miles on IP? Might want to do the checklist to help everyone figure out your problem

 

[DEERE3594]

Check list:
http://www.dieseltowingresource.com/showthread.php?t=6300

 

[Matt Bachand]

Sounds like Fuel deliver problem, clogged filter, clogged fuel tank sock, dead lift pump (or no power), or out of fuel.

Fuel pressure gauge will help you here, replace primary filter anyhow.

Doesn't explain black smoke, but odd things can happen when your demanding a whole lot more fuel than your consistantly getting.

 

[stricker76]

Ya beat me to it....i was just going to ask what checklist. I'll check it out. Fuel filter is 6 months old, but only has 50 kms on it. Was replaced when tryinmg to fix other stalling issue which turned out to be PMD. PMD is still on the IP, funny thing is the relocate kit and new pmd just showed up today and i was going to do that while doing the exhaust at work. But it isn't the same stalling like it was doing to me with the pmd, it was just plain dieing then. No stumble or anything. Now for the checklist.....

 

[stricker76]

Wow, thats a long checklist and its past my bedtime. LOL I'll get to that in the morning.

 

[stricker76]

Problem: Explain your problem in concise language (ie: Cranks but won’t fire).
Stalling. But not like when my PMD went, doesn't really stumble either, just gradually dies down till its idling and then eventually dies completely. And had only driven the truck half a km when it happened, hadn't even warmed up yet. After a few minutes will start back up and idle till it dies again.

Demographics: tell us about your truck and your ambient conditions:

- Year: 1998
- Truck model and class: c2500
- Automatic
- Mileage: 530,000km
- Replaced parts and mods: None
- Model: ‘S’ or ‘F’ engine, NA or Turbo, EGR? Turbo, non-egr
- Ambient outside temp: 5 deg C
- What fuel are you using? Couldn't tell ya
- What fuel additives are you using? Diesel fuel conditioner
- Where are you located? Ontario, Canada

General maintenance: inspect and evaluate the condition of each. When were they last changed?
- Air filter 6 mos. but no kms since
- Fuel filter Same as above
- CDR Valve? Whats that? LOL
- Coolant – Flushed las fall
- Oil – regular changed 6 mos ago, but no kms since
- Batteries – replaced 6 mos ago
- Battery cables and grounds - 6 mos ago
- Glow Plugs - Not in the last 200,000kms for sure, don't know if they ever have been changed and same with the injectors.
- Injectors ^^


History: (Describe how the problem first appeared.)
- What were you doing when it happened? Driving
- How was the truck running fine before this problem appeared? Fine, but it had sat for 6 months after that
- Has this problem ever happened before? No.
- Describe any related factors that might be part of the problem. ______________
- Have you checked for DTC (Diagnostic Trouble Codes)? (Y.N) No


Diagnostics:

1] Starting:
1a] Does the engine start? Yes
1b] Does the engine crank over? Yes
1c] Are your batteries fully charged? Yes
1d] Have you removed, cleaned, and tightened all battery connections? Yes
1e] Does your Wait to Start light come on for a time? How long? Yes, about 5 seconds
1f] Does your glow plug light come on? Isn't that the same as above?
1g] Do you see smoke from the exhaust while cranking? What color? No
1h] Does the Service Engine Light Glow during Start/bulb check? No

2] Fuel Issues (if not running):
2a] Can you hear your lift pump working? Yes
2b] Do you get a steady flow of fuel from the water drain (T-handle) ? NA _________
2c] Loosen the inlet line from the IP – is fuel coming out (Lift Pump on)? NA ___________
2d] Loosen an injector line and crank the engine - does fuel come out? NA _________
2e] Do you hear a vacuum (hiss) when you remove the fuel cap? NA ___________

3] PMD / IP Issues
3a] Location of PMD (on pump, on intake, remote mounted) Remote
3b] Condition of Extension harness (if used) Vendor or Homemade? New
3c] Condition of grounds / ground wires to IP / PMD. Check Harness. _________
3d] PMD Make: Dunno
3e] PMD Age: 1 day

4] Stalling Issues
4a] Do you experience stalling only when hot? No.
4b] Does it stall under particular circumstances? No.
4c] Does pouring cool water over the IP seem to help with restarting? No
4d] Is stalling momentary (engine recovers)? No
4e] Does SES light come on when engine hiccups? No
4f] Does cruise control quit working when engine hiccups? No cruise
4g] Does re-starting seem to reset engine, restoring cruise and power? No
4h] Changes to dash lights or instruments during stalling events? No

5] Running Issues
5a] On cold start, does upper rad hose get hard before engine warms up? NA
5b] Any bubbles or oil film in coolant overflow tank? No
5c] Any white slime on oil surfaces (dipstick, CDR, oil Fill cap)? No
5d] Excessive white smoke from exhaust on cold start? Not excessive
5e] Excessive black smoke from exhaust under hard acceleration? All the time

Hope that helps.

 

[Matt Bachand]

Gotta pick up a cheap fuel pressure gauge and hook it to the t-valve (water drain) run a length of hose 10' or so into cab to see what fuel pressure is doing while you have these symptoms.

I'm willing to bet its gradually dropping to zero. Then as it stalls, and the IP/LP is no longer holding onto the crap thats clogging it in tank, and it stalls, crud falls free. Until next fire-up and process repeats.

Harbor freight sells a good diagnose one for 10 bux or so.

 

[stricker76]

Guess i'll grab a gauge. Noticed if i open the top of the fuel filter it has pressure there when running and with just the key on. Guess that doesn't mean it has enough to run the engine. Where is the water drain located?

 

[ak diesel driver]

t-handle on the tstat housing

 

[Matt Bachand]

Guess i'll grab a gauge. Noticed if i open the top of the fuel filter it has pressure there when running and with just the key on. Guess that doesn't mean it has enough to run the engine. Where is the water drain located?

Try this then, next time it stalls out pop the hood and open the bleeder and see if it hisses, meaning IP is creating a vacuum..

Fuel guage is a must have diagnostic tool for any diesel.

 

[bison]

The best way to diagnose air in the system is to replace the IP return hose permanently with clear tubing.No air bubbles permitted "period",only 1 little one in the top of the bend after shut down. Tube should stay full overnight as well.

 

[stricker76]

I opened the bleeder before i started it with the key on, while it was running, and one more time after it stalled. All 3 times i had fuel coming out. I am going to grab a gauge tomorrow morning and i'll let you know what i get.

 

[stricker76]

Checked a few more things. Heading out to get a gauge right now.

2b] Do you get a steady flow of fuel from the water drain (T-handle) ? Yes
2e] Do you hear a vacuum (hiss) when you remove the fuel cap? Yes

Try this then, next time it stalls out pop the hood and open the bleeder and see if it hisses, meaning IP is creating a vacuum..

No hiss, just fuel. At this point it will start and idle for about 5 seconds then die. I can do whatever i want with the gas pedal and the engine does squat, just idles....till it dies. Then start it back up and do it all over again.

 

[stricker76]

Checked the fuel pressure at the water drain. Key on engine off 7psi. Start it up and it drops to 4-5psi and stays there until it stalls and then goes back up to 7psi. Never drops below 4psi.

 

[540s10]

the only thing i can think if your are pouring black smoke out like a train is an air restriction. The black smoke means more fuel than can be completely burned so fuel really shouldnt be an issue, id check the make sure theres not a squirrel stuck in your turbo or something.

 

[bison]

What happens with the pressure when yo step on it.You might want to have a look at the Filter to IP in let hose, it could have a loose piece of rubber in it,blocking of the hose or the IP hose barb .The IP filter could be plugged as well. The filter is on the IP inlet hose barb in the IP.

 

[Matt Bachand]

Also keep in mind water drain is pre-filter, meaning if the primary filter is clogged it will not show drop on the gauge, however, if it was clogged, I would think the gauge would read the same as when it deadheads at wait to start. (7psi you said i think).

So it seems it is not a fuel blockage related. Having the gauge is an invaluable tool to have. And assumign you have a good primary filter, I think you ruled out the fuel system not having a restriction.

Black smoke is unburnt fuel, a cause would be starvation for air, turbo wastegate issue (usually codes) rarely stalls, .

Check out the air assmebly as 540 suggested, Have heard stories of aftermarket filters losing their rubber cap, and it lodging at the turbo inlet.



Something else free to try is Heath's 'general IP heatlth test' from idle slowly bring the RPM's to 2000 (in park) hold it there a few seconds, then SLOWLY bring it back down.
Most important part of this test is the IP's ability to bring it down smoothly, yet slowly from 2000 back to idle without issue.



Its touchy, so will take a few times, but you should be able to get it (assuming it doesn't stall out from other issue). I'm not suggesting IP, just something to try as it is free.

 

[bison]

He might have good press at idle,but if it does'nt drop at higher rpms its shows a restriction from the fiter on.
That is why I prefer the fuel gauge to tap in between the filter and the IP.

 

[Matt Bachand]

He might have good press at idle,but if it does'nt drop at higher rpms its shows a restriction from the fiter on.
That is why I prefer the fuel gauge to tap in between the filter and the IP.

I agree Bison, but if its enough restriction to stall the truck, I would think his pump would be deadheaded, bringing his pressure back upwards closer to that of wait to start, then the same 4 he had at idle, and when it stalled.