Head flow info

[Twisted Steel Performance]

I'm wondering if anyone knows of any past or present folks that have posted head flow numbers before and or after for 6.2 / 6.5 heads.

I know their has been some home gasket match stuff but has anyone shown the results of there work, anything from professional porters and if so what flow machine was used etc....

The reason I ask is myself & Unique Diesel are working on this very thing, we are not ready to post any found info yet but getting close with real proven numbers, lots of pics, real data etc. We both have/are spending a considerable amount of time & money with this project and are using a independent shop for the testing of these heads so to be as unbiased as possible.

So, lets see if there is any documented data out there, and lets have a civil discussion on this topic without tooooo much speculation ......

And when the work is done there will be a new thread with ALL data collected on the 5 sets we are working on....

So let the discussion began...

 

[schiker]

The only thing I can remember is Peninsular had a blurb once about something. I can't remember but think it was related to one of their performance engines custom heads being able to flow more air maybe one of their low compression engines coupled with a big turbo. ???? This going back several years ago and some posts on The Place or The Page.

Very fuzzy maybe Jim on the page mentioned it was some mods on the exhaust side of flow.

 

[schiker]

I looked around but of course did not see anything like I remembered so googled some and ran across this after a few minutes it was the only thing with any number comparisons I saw. Maybe someone can find better number stuff.

Clipped....
Extrude Hone Process Results
Since this was our first time using the Extrude Hone process, we decided to test the heads on a flow-bench. This machine enables you to test the airflow volume and air velocity as it travels through the intake and exhaust ports of the cylinder heads. Tests are performed at different valve lifts. We started at .050 and then compared the performance at .050 intervals up to the maximum valve lift of .450. We compared the flow numbers of Ted’s custom heads to a stock 6.5L cylinder head to see exactly what he gained in the honing process. While I don’t want to go into a great deal of detail here about our flow-bench findings, I will make a few comments. There were improvements in both airflow and velocity across the board. Our biggest gain for the intake port was a 28% increase in airflow volume and a 22% increase in velocity at .100 valve lift. On the exhaust side, our biggest gain was a 15% increase in volume and a 26% increase in velocity at .450 valve lift.

From an article in max torque : http://www.maxxtorque.com/2008/10/the-best-ever-65-chevy-diesel-rebuild.html

 

[FellowTraveler]

Waiting for the final results, cost, turnaround time and if the P$) head can be done keep the hardened seats.

If only there was a great bump stick out there for the 6.5td......I remember using wild N/A bump sticks in turbo engines I used for racing the results were shockingly excellent however if not careful a flame front that melts things will be the result.

 

[Twisted Steel Performance]

Well in this thread I'm just looking for any real type numbers from anyone else, I haven't been able to find anything at all on the web yet....

Hubert, I saw that, doesn't tell anything does it, just something they said, myself, I would have a hard time spending money with nothing more than that to look at.. but that's just how I am..

 

[EWC]

I had my heads ported , improved like 30 and 40 CFM . Open plenum is worth 20 CFM over the dual plane , somewhere around 198 CFM .

 

[Twisted Steel Performance]

Thank everyone, still not what I was looking for, anyone have before & after numbers as in a print out of data from the flow machine used??? Any pics of the runners after the work was done???

We have a set on the mill now, and pics along the way.. I won't post any here until we are finished compiling the data, but if anyone wants to see a few pics they are on my FB page, that can be found in my sig...

I'm guessing no one has done much in this area other than a little grinding...

With the stock flow numbers we have found in the MANY sets flowed, it doesn't make a lot of sense to have a bigger turbo to push more air in when the biggest fault is the exhaust runner's ability to flow out of the head.... the numbers for the exhaust side are really low.... lots of room for improvement BUT lots of work also...

 

[Twisted Steel Performance]

More of this is what we are looking for....

The numbers....

P400 New Intake 0.100 0.200 0.250 0.300 0.350 0.400 0.450 0.500
P400 In 56 106 131 152 167 177 182 184


P400 New Exhaust 0.100 0.200 0.250 0.300 0.350 0.400 0.450 0.500
P400 Ex 47 89 110 124 132 135 138 140


94 in - .100 0.200 0.250 0.300 0.350 0.400 0.450 0.500
50 106 134 156 172 181 186 183

94 ex - .100 0.200 0.250 0.300 0.350 0.400 0.450 0.500
42 79 99 115 127 133 137 140


Thanks to Unique Diesel for the data & charts.....

 

[ak diesel driver]

Would you mind explaining those numbers for those of us who've never been around a flow bench?

 

[Twisted Steel Performance]

Les, the bottom line on the chart is valve lift in inches, the side numbers are CFM..

The line of numbers listed under the chart are the actual numbers given at each increment of lift up to .500"...

Basically, p400 head has a max flow of 184cfm @ .500" lift intake

and the 94 had a max flow of 183cfm @ .500" lift intake

The # is the cfm amount of flow @ a defined lift....

Does this help Les ????

 

[FellowTraveler]

Well I suspect we can never get the greatest flow out of the primitive IDI designed for work more than play anyway and I doubt a bigger turbo is more a problem than inability to fuel w/DS4 up top, this is where a high output DB2 shines.

I've been concerned about not having any real data on some aftermarket turbos IMHO to determine facts back/drive pressure/cfm flow at various pressure ratios etc.

 

[FellowTraveler]

Les, the bottom line on the chart is valve lift in inches, the side numbers are CFM..

The line of numbers listed under the chart are the actual numbers given at each increment of lift up to .500"...

Basically, p400 head has a max flow of 184cfm @ .500" lift intake

and the 94 had a max flow of 183cfm @ .500" lift intake

The # is the cfm amount of flow @ a defined lift....

Does this help Les ????

That flow increases from those as pressure ratio increases right?

 

[Twisted Steel Performance]

Well, I'm a manual pump person so with Unique's hotrod pump I believe I can find some useable power left behind in the heads...

Like I said, it doesn't matter much how much air ya attempt to push through the motor if the flow % between in & ex isn't where it's known to need to be.... around 85% of each other....

 

[FellowTraveler]

Well, I'm a manual pump person so with Unique's hotrod pump I believe I can find some useable power left behind in the heads...

Like I said, it doesn't matter much how much air ya attempt to push through the motor if the flow % between in & ex isn't where it's known to need to be.... around 85% of each other....

Isn't that more an IDI design issue more than anything else? Any ideas how much can be safely removed from the runners or is that an unknown?

 

[Twisted Steel Performance]

I can't give all the info on how the flow machine does it's thing as I don't know... I do know they are using a Super flow 600 me thinks with computer data logging & controls, more will be posted about the machine and the process in the data thread when it's started...

 

[Twisted Steel Performance]

Isn't that more an IDI design issue more than anything else? Any ideas how much can be safely removed from the runners or is that an unknown?

Not really, IDI is a limiting factor but no where near a wall that can't be over come...

Do ya remember a while back I posted pics of a head I cut apart ??? Well, no one had done that either, I know how much can be removed everywhere and where the thin spots are so I feel good about what I'm doing... and this isn't my first rodeo doing this, just going to the max with this one set of heads.. attempting to show any benefits from stock, ported, then ceramic coated runners on the same set of heads....

 

[ak diesel driver]

So the 94 is a set of 1994 stock heads your using as a baseline?

 

[FellowTraveler]

Not really, IDI is a limiting factor but no where near a wall that can't be over come...

Do ya remember a while back I posted pics of a head I cut apart ??? Well, no one had done that either, I know how much can be removed everywhere and where the thin spots are so I feel good about what I'm doing... and this isn't my first rodeo doing this, just going to the max with this one set of heads.. attempting to show any benefits from stock, ported, then ceramic coated runners on the same set of heads....

I did forget that and now you really sparked my interest, I was just going over FORD IDI 7.3 head tech and see they have the same problem truth be told 3.5k rpms is pushing any IDI's limits.

 

[EWC]

You know Rider , I find your response fairly arrogant . You asked if anyone had ported their heads and I responded with numbers . Also gave you numbers for the intake flow , which I suppose you think I made up . I have posted numbers more than a few times , also the Crane regrind I have , and yet you can't find them . Fair enough , maybe they are not here . Point here is you are not the only one who has gone down this path . I will say that my intake manifold numbers are now smaller than my head numbers .

 

[Twisted Steel Performance]

You know Rider , I find your response fairly arrogant . You asked if anyone had ported their heads and I responded with numbers . Also gave you numbers for the intake flow , which I suppose you think I made up . I have posted numbers more than a few times , also the Crane regrind I have , and yet you can't find them . Fair enough , maybe they are not here . Point here is you are not the only one who has gone down this path . I will say that my intake manifold numbers are now smaller than my head numbers .

Wasn't tiring to be at all, I meant more of what the # are through the path is all, this thread was & is about what data is out there..

I used the chart relevant to this forum, a 6.5 as a example of the type stuff I'm searching for, this thread isn't about the chart itself...

Oh, I didn't really see any numbers in your first response, I must have missed it, but I don't doubt you, I don't know ya....