Hard start with advent of white smoke

[Barry87yj]

Greetings,

I have a little problem I hope I can get some fresh perspective on.

I cracked the heads on my truck a few years ago. The head gasket blew from water to exhaust. A shop replaced the heads and ever since I have had hard starting problems. They were not bad but progressed, so now I lay a smoke screen in front of my house. It will also stumble and stall the first few times. It is worse in the cold but even on a hot day (90F) it will have the same problems. After the car is started It will run fine with no smoke.

The shop replaced the glow plugs when they did the new heads. I have since then replaced them again. I checked them with an ohm meter before I did and found bad ones. Then last night I rechecked them when filling out the diagnostic list and found another bad one. (third one back on drivers side.) It's replaced now.

I replaced the injectors 6 months ago which improved the starting but it is still terrible in my opinion. I have cleaned all grounds and checked with meter ... all good. New batteries and cable ends ( no change). No codes, when I pull them I get 12/12/12. Pmd was replaced after the heads and has always been on the heat sync. Intake side of the turbo is a little greasy. but I haven't suspected that is my starting problem yet. I have checked the glow controler for voltage and it works with 11.03 volts.

I have checked for voltage at the glow plugs also (same voltage). I have unplugged the Coolant temp sensor and the truck started normally and ran much stronger sounding. My assumption is that the glow plug system is ok. I replaced the CTS and the new one starts poorly also.

I checked the wires from the CTS to the ECM and they have no foreign ground on them, they are 2 clean wires. I have checked for fuel at the water in fuel tee and top of filter while truck runs and both run clear. I have not checked fuel presure but since it can start well without the CTS I am assuming that it is ok.

Lift pump is only a few years old. Truck has 139,000 miles on it. I am at a loss for what to do next. Any help will be appreciated. Let me know if you want any more info.

One more tid bit. The hard start is worst first thing in the morning but only after a hour or so it will be another hard start. Tried adding the block heater and it only slightly helps. Nothing helped as much as the CTS unplug.

Your smoke blowing friend,






6.5 Engine Diagnostic Troubleshooting Checklist

Copy and paste this checklist into a new post, then answer all the questions by typing in your data into the blanks as indicated - click in the middle of the blank, start typing.


Problem: Explain your problem in concise language (ie: Cranks but won’t fire). ___________See above_________________

Demographics: tell us about your truck and your ambient conditions:

- Year: ___1994___
- Truck model and class (ie: c2500) ____c3500_____
- Automatic or Standard ____Automatic______
- Mileage: (indicate miles or km) _____135,000____
- Replaced parts and mods (IP, PMD, chip/PCM, TM, injectors etc) _____pmd heat sync on intake with ground on pump, dual thermostat upgrade including fan and fan clutch, banks exhaust including guages, heath turbo master wastegate (pushing 11 psi max), ______
- Model: ‘S’ or ‘F’ engine, NA or Turbo, EGR? _____F_________
- Ambient outside temp: (indicate *C or *F) ____75 f___problem occurs anywhere from -10 to 90 f___
- What fuel are you using? (#1 Diesel, #2 Diesel, Bio, VO, WVO, etc) _____#2____
- What fuel additives are you using? _____None_a little atf once in a while_____
- Where are you located? ___Truckee CA___Sierra nevada mountains 5900ft _______

General maintenance: inspect and evaluate the condition of each. When were they last changed?
- Air filter ____Clean_____
- Fuel filter ____Less than 2000 miles on it_____
- CDR Valve? ____None_____
- Coolant – last flushed/replaced at ____125000 miles_________
- Oil – synthetic/regular, changed at ___once a year__Delo 400______
- Batteries – state of charge, (matched set) replaced at __Matched brand new with new lugs on clean cables___________
- Battery cables and grounds (removed, cleaned and tightened): ______Yes and checked with ohm meter________
- Glow Plugs - how many miles on them? ____Less than 200_____ What type? ____Instant heats_________
- Injectors - last changed at ___6 months ago stock replacements____________


History: (Describe how the problem first appeared.)
- What were you doing when it happened? _____all answered above._________
- How was the truck running fine before this problem appeared? _____________
- Has this problem ever happened before? _______________________
- Describe any related factors that might be part of the problem. ______________
- Have you checked for DTC (Diagnostic Trouble Codes)? (Y.N) ____ And? ________


Diagnostics:

1] Starting:
1a] Does the engine start? ___Yes______
1b] Does the engine crank over? __Yes______
1c] Are your batteries fully charged? ____Yes_____
1d] Have you removed, cleaned, and tightened all battery connections? ___YEs_____
1e] Does your Wait to Start light come on for a time? How long? _________
1f] Does your glow plug light come on? ____Between 1 and 9 seconds_____ For how long? _________
1g] Do you see smoke from the exhaust while cranking? What color? ___White smoke comes out just after start_____

2] Fuel Issues (if not running):
2a] Can you hear your lift pump working? ______Yes______
2b] Do you get a steady flow of fuel from the water drain (T-handle) ? ____Yes_____
2c] Loosen the inlet line from the IP – is fuel coming out (Lift Pump on)? _____Yes______
2d] Loosen an injector line and crank the engine - does fuel come out? _____Not done____
2e] Do you hear a vacuum (hiss) when you remove the fuel cap? _____Yes Replaced cap with new one______

3] PMD / IP Issues
3a] Location of PMD (on pump, on intake, remote mounted) ___Intake________
3b] Condition of Extension harness (if used) Vendor or Homemade? __Vendor like new_______
3c] Condition of grounds / ground wires to IP / PMD. Check Harness. ____Good_____
3d] PMD Make: ___? _Got it from heath/kenedy or ssdiesel??_______
3e] PMD Age: ____3 years ish_________

4] Stalling Issues
4a] Do you experience stalling only when hot? ____n/a________
4b] Does it stall under particular circumstances? (ie hit bump, or on accel) __stalls immidiatly after first few attempts to start____
4c] Does pouring cool water over the IP seem to help with restarting? _____n/a not tied to temp____
4d] Is stalling momentary (engine recovers)? ____no_____
4e] Does SES light come on when engine hiccups? ____yes when the engine dies_____
4f] Does cruise control quit working when engine hiccups? _____n/a______
4g] Does re-starting seem to reset engine, restoring cruise and power? _____n/a____
4h] Changes to dash lights or instruments during stalling events? _____n/a______

5] Running Issues
5a] On cold start, does upper rad hose get hard before engine warms up? ___No____
5b] Any bubbles or oil film in coolant overflow tank? ___no____
5c] Any white slime on oil surfaces (dipstick, CDR, oil Fill cap)? _____no_____
5d] Excessive white smoke from exhaust on cold start? ____Yes_____
5e] Excessive black smoke from exhaust under hard acceleration? ____No______

6] Performance Issues
6a] Do you have gauges? _____Yes______
6b] Maximum boost under load? _____11 psi_______
6c] Have you added a performance PCM (reflash) or Chip? _____no_________
6d] Have you changed exhaust / downpipe / crossover? ______downpipe back is bigger__________
6e] Wastegate – mechanical or vacuum? _______turbo master_______

7] Temperature-related Issues:
7a] Single or dual thermostats? _____Dual 185's_______
7b] Have you replaced them lately? Manufacturer of replacements? ____No they seem to be working fine_____
7c] Have you pulled and cleaned Radiator and coolers lately? ______no______
7d] Have you replaced the fan clutch? Manufacturer of replacement? ____Yes with thermostat upgrade above SSdiesel____
7e] (winter) Have you tested your antifreeze? Good to what temp? ____No but it is new 50 coolant 50 water______
7f] (winter) Are you using a winter grille cover? ___no________


Thanks again for any help Let me know if I can recheck anything for you.

Barry

 

[Veg_Out]

Well, I can't imagine how it would make it smokey at startup, but I know that the heat sync you have setup has been proven as the worst spot for the pmd. It is sitting inside a 600 degree oven. If you can get ahold of a known good pmd to try, that would certainly answer the pmd question.

That turbo looks a bit oily to me. Any blowby?

Here's my internet guess. Little air leak between the IP and fuel manager. This hose gets subjected to crazy types of heat. The stumbling is air at startup.

You know, a youtube vid would be great of this.

 

[Barry87yj]

Thank you Mr. Veg_Out,

I checked the hose connections and they look good and there is no sign of leaking in the V on the intake.

If that hose had a leak would the CTS being unplugged be helping?

_________________

I do believe I have some blow by. I get a tiny bit of smoke out of the dip stick from time to time. Do you think that it might be related to this starting problem? I recall the blow by started after the heads were replaced. I never gave it much consideration but maybe it is another symptom?

Just thinking out loud... maybe the added oil in the turbo fouled or ruined the iat and that is messing with my timing etc........and by pulling the CTS the timing is advanced and it runs better ...countering the bad input from the IAT??

Perhaps I will try to test the IAT.

 

[Pruittx2]

perhaps, he's sucking in some air, in a older rubber line farther back in the system,, For that a clear hose near the IP might help to see it. Just a thought.

 

[Brooklyn Tow]

Timing sounds suspect.

 

[Turbine Doc]

11V at glow controller is low what is age of batts, even though "new" you need to do a load cell test of the batts, 1 weak one will draw down entire glow system, & cause slow cranking/weak glow, glow plugs can't be "read" with a meter, that will tell you only if they are open, only way to test a glow is to remove it, and jumper across a battery, should get red hot tip to center in about 4 sec, if not it is a good glow but a weak one, what glows do you have in it? If WAP those have been known to fail early on like weeks after the new installation.

test those, that is free, do you have access to a scan tool that can read timing for you, it does sound like your timing is a little retarded, and IP may need to be moved toward driver side to advance it, but before adjusting it, we need to know where current timing is, in the time set mode.

 

[Brooklyn Tow]

What fuel additives are you using? _____None_a little atf once in a while_

FYI - It has been said that ATF is not a good fuel additive for different reasons, anyway most of us run either 2 Stroke or SAE 30 nondetergent motor oil...."about" 1oz. of oil to 1gallon of fuel.

Just figured I'd throw that out there, from your diagnostic checklist info.

 

[Matt Bachand]

FYI - It has been said that ATF is not a good fuel additive for different reasons, anyway most of us run either 2 Stroke or SAE 30 nondetergent motor oil...."about" 1oz. of oil to 1gallon of fuel.

Just figured I'd throw that out there, from your diagnostic checklist info.

Do this faithfully every tank. EVERY TANK. It will help save your injection pump from the ULSD fuel which loses the lube in the low-sulfer process.

Try unplugging your ECT (engine coolant temp) sensor on top of the engine and see if it makes it easier to start. What it will do is tell the puter its -20 outside and make glow cycle and timing advanced for cold start. Its another free check. See if it helps any.

If it does, then perhaps the ECT isn't reading proper ambients.

No warm start issues?

Another free test is the 'general IP health test'

At idle slowly bring RPM's to 2,000, and then SLOWLY bring them back to idle. The test is if the IP can bring it back down smoothly.

 

[Barry87yj]

Back from the Garage,

Just performed the ip health test and I would like to add some symptoms.

Now that I have seen the truck running smooth with the CTS unplugged....

The truck is stuttering at idle and throughout the range of rpm's from idle to 2000. The worst is at 1700rpm. around that speed there is a small flow of white/blue smoke. I have not seen this while I am driving the truck but during this test it is repeatable.

Not to distract from your possible responses but would the cable under the intake with the resistors that bill heath talks about on his tech info pages be the cause of this stumbling and starting issues?? and is there a way to prove this good or bad?

Your wishing he had a DCT code friend,

 

[Barry87yj]

Thank for the input on the fuel additive. I will head this advise.

Your cautious friend,

 

[Barry87yj]

I sure wish I had a scan tool. ......

Shame on me for that negativism.

If need be I will construct one out of grass clippings and 3 razorblades......

Thats better...

Your positive feeling friend,


As not to mislead the general public the above mentioned tool is mythical and I do not have a schematic to distribute.

 

[Barry87yj]

Back from the garage,

FYI I tested the CDR by using a clear tube attached to the dip stick draped into water bucket. At Idle water level was even with bucket water. At 2000 rpm I had 1 1/2 inches of water raised in the tube.

Amature conclusion is the CDR is ok and blow-by is minimal.

Back to the garage,

 

[Matt Bachand]

Back from the Garage,

Just performed the ip health test and I would like to add some symptoms.

Now that I have seen the truck running smooth with the CTS unplugged....

The truck is stuttering at idle and throughout the range of rpm's from idle to 2000. The worst is at 1700rpm. around that speed there is a small flow of white/blue smoke. I have not seen this while I am driving the truck but during this test it is repeatable.

Not to distract from your possible responses but would the cable under the intake with the resistors that bill heath talks about on his tech info pages be the cause of this stumbling and starting issues?? and is there a way to prove this good or bad?

Your wishing he had a DCT code friend,

CTS is the temp sendor for the gauge in cab.

ECT is the one the puter reads to adjust the cold advance and glow-time for weather. 2 separate gauges.


If you have the ECT unplugged, it may not run right as it cannot compensate for the proper ambient temps. If it helped by unplugging it, perhaps it is failed. Price it out, it may not be that much to just toss it in.

Then again, it may.

 

[Barry87yj]

CTS is the temp sendor for the gauge in cab.

ECT is the one the puter reads to adjust the cold advance and glow-time for weather. 2 separate gauges.


If you have the ECT unplugged, it may not run right as it cannot compensate for the proper ambient temps. If it helped by unplugging it, perhaps it is failed. Price it out, it may not be that much to just toss it in.

Then again, it may.

My bad,

I should have said ECM. The thing on the other end of the wire connected to the CTS..

Opps,.....so many letters... so little time.

 

[NVW]

www.EnghMotors.com has a program to read codes, set timing and more for $185 US that will work on your 94.

I also think your timing is off.

Leo

 

[bison]

My bad,

I should have said ECM. The thing on the other end of the wire connected to the CTS..

Opps,.....so many letters... so little time.

The CTS (or ETS for that matter) you are after is the one located on the water crossover.2 wire
The CTS in driver side head is just for the temp gauge.1 wire

I suggest you pull the glowers and test them on the batt.

IP also sounds suspect for the symptoms you mention at 1700 rpm,not just the timing,altough i would check that first.

 

[Barry87yj]

The CTS (or ETS for that matter) you are after is the one located on the water crossover.2 wire
The CTS in driver side head is just for the temp gauge.1 wire

I suggest you pull the glowers and test them on the batt.

IP also sounds suspect for the symptoms you mention at 1700 rpm,not just the timing,altough i would check that first.

I am afraid that you may be right about the pump.

I don't really want to have to put all that money into this truck although I wouldn't mind getting 700,00 miles out of a paid for car.

Bison, on your 89 truck have, you had to work through these kind of issues every 100,00 or so?

If I get a scan tool and find my timing out of adjustment, perhaps I will get some more of the life out of the ip...... Either way It seems I need a scan tool to get much further.

Your running out of things to fix friend,

 

[bison]

I am afraid that you may be right about the pump.

I don't really want to have to put all that money into this truck although I wouldn't mind getting 700,00 miles out of a paid for car.

Bison, on your 89 truck have, you had to work through these kind of issues every 100,00 or so?

If I get a scan tool and find my timing out of adjustment, perhaps I will get some more of the life out of the ip...... Either way It seems I need a scan tool to get much further.

Your running out of things to fix friend,

a new IP(if you need one)is helluve lot cheaper than buy other truck.

My 98 i bought in 96 with 300 some k on it, sunk in around 5 grand since on rebuild engine(blew oil cooler line),tranny and 1 IP among other little things.
It is still my daily dr and ranch truck,it never complaints(well,not very often )
works out to less than $1000 a yr incl buy price.

 

[Barry87yj]

Back from the garage,
I would like to report that I have found an anomaly in the return line to the IP. It looks like when I had the heads replaced they sliced the hose to get it off and then just pushed it back on and let it go. The hose clamp did not even cover the cut. I have replaced the hose with a clear fuel line and I will let it set overnight and see if I am getting any air in that part of the system. Immediately after turning off the engine a bubble the size of a small pinto bean rose to the top. I'll report back in the morning to see if that helped.

 

[ak diesel driver]

I had similar issues on my 96 you my want to check out my thread hard cold start.