GM's bean counters strike again

[iamdave0887]

I'm aware this is 6.2 related but i figured you guys would want to see this.

According to that GM brochure the 6.2 was originally designed with a forged steel crankshaft. One would think that would've carried over to the 6.5 as well.

Too bad GM was busy counting their pennies instead and they axed the forged crank. A member at the other site said he read somewhere that Detroit was highly annoyed about GMs changes and predicted crank failures. They were right.

The blocks were all supposed to be like the 82 6.2, very high in nickle content, but again the bean counters made sure that never happened. :mad2:

Leave it to GM to ruin things by trying to save money at the cost of durability.

 

[Crankme69]

The very same bean counter mentality is now being used over at Harley Davidson on their motors. They have had a crankshaft runout issue since the mid 2000's on their Twin Cam motors. HD in their infamous wisdom cured the issue by increasing the maximum runout specification from 3 thousands to 12 thousands. There problem solved! What a friggin joke, you don't even need a dial indicator to detect 12 thousands runout on a rotating shaft, let alone the same shaft in this instance that is driving the oil pump in that setup...& we wonder why everything here is going the chit???

 

[iamdave0887]

The very same bean counter mentality is now being used over at Harley Davidson on their motors. They have had a crankshaft runout issue since the mid 2000's on their Twin Cam motors. HD in their infamous wisdom cured the issue by increasing the maximum runout specification from 3 thousands to 12 thousands. There problem solved! What a friggin joke, you don't even need a dial indicator to detect 12 thousands runout on a rotating shaft, let alone the same shaft in this instance that is driving the oil pump in that setup...& we wonder why everything here is going the chit???

I don't wonder why things are going to chit anymore really. It's obvious to folks like us that run older vehicles/equipment.

The good old "if it doesn't meet the spec, lower the spec" approach. That always works. :mad2: A friggin joke would be putting it nicely.

Sad that everything is going to crap really. Yet another reason to add to the list of keeping old stuff going, rather than buying new stuff.

 

[Crankme69]

really not good!

I'm with ya there, the only real challenge anymore is finding replacement parts, most of em are pure chit. :mad2:

I can not imagine trying to maintain customer satisfaction running a repair shop with the parts we have avaialble today for repairs. I have a friend that "had" a shop no more he went belly up due to replacement parts that wouldn't last.

Anymore I am starting to think we are better of going to the junkyard for something, only problem is the yards are on to it...have you priced a used part lately at a junkyard:???:

A good rebuild shop is something to find, but what is that guy using for parts?

 

[iamdave0887]

I basically built my blazer out of junkyard parts. I refuse to buy things for that truck that say anything other than "made in USA" on them(although for our boys up north i'll make an exception).

The local pick and pulls are onto people looking for deals. However if they bring their prices up too much, they'll loose those looking for deals, especially in yards where you have to pull it, then end up paying a premium for it.

A friend found an entire DB2 IP with injection lines for a 7.3 IDI in the yard a few days ago. $45 out the door after we removed it ourselves.

There are deals out there to be had, but finding them is taking more and more work. That amount of work deters most people to the "new" stuff sold in parts stores regardless of where it's made or the quality of the parts.

 

[ak diesel driver]

I wonder if any of the early 6.2s had a forged crank? and how one would tell?

 

[iamdave0887]

I wonder if any of the early 6.2s had a forged crank? and how one would tell?

That's what i'm wondering. Perhaps the first few 6.2s got past GMs "quality reduction money saving control". I have no idea how one would tell though.

 

[ak diesel driver]

how would one tell a very early 6.2 block?

 

[Crankme69]

A friend has an old 6.2 blazer at his shop early mid 80's OEM 6.2, it's an orange block...???

 

[Dieseldad97]

The very same bean counter mentality is now being used over at Harley Davidson on their motors. They have had a crankshaft runout issue since the mid 2000's on their Twin Cam motors. HD in their infamous wisdom cured the issue by increasing the maximum runout specification from 3 thousands to 12 thousands. There problem solved! What a friggin joke, you don't even need a dial indicator to detect 12 thousands runout on a rotating shaft, let alone the same shaft in this instance that is driving the oil pump in that setup...& we wonder why everything here is going the chit???

So I guess going to gear driven cams in my Softail wouldn't be such a great idea then...

 

[Crankme69]

I would recommend the new hydraulic tensioner setup or conversion before I would go gear drive Gerald. Gears require a repeatable tolerance that is not obtainable with the OEM crank. Yes many have done it with success but I like to leave my gambling to be done in Vegas....

 

[iamdave0887]

A friend has an old 6.2 blazer at his shop early mid 80's OEM 6.2, it's an orange block...???

That sounds like a "red block" 6.2, or the 1982 model year which was the year the 6.2 was released. If any were to have the forged crank, the red blocks would be the ones.

I have a feeling GM was able to axe the forged crank before production started, but hopefully i'm wrong.

The red block also had an actual date stamped on them. xx-xx-82 for example. I'd guess the 6.2 came about in late '81 when the '82s came out, but i could be wrong there too. I didn't exist then. :hihi:

 

[Veg_Out]

I wonder if any of the early 6.2s had a forged crank? and how one would tell?

I too wonder about this. Surely this wouldn't have printed unless it was the case? If so, the search for 82 rebuildable blocks is under way, we'd best keep this hush hush!

 

[btfarm]

Easiest way is to hit a counterweight with a ball peen hammer.
http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles/116_0308_crankshafts_how_to/index1.html

BTW, billit is stronger than forged. But WAY more $

 

[racedaymechanic]

Actually thats not as true as you think, a Billet iss cut from a Chunk of steel and the grains are actually cut thru when it is being carved, but a forged Crank has been beat into its shape at very high temp and force Making the grain of the steel flow with the forging, or so ive been told by more than one Engine builder

 

[bk95td]

I have at least one cast in 81, 6.2 block. No way of knowing if it is original crank though. I have a couple other "RED" block 6.2s.

 

[btfarm]

Actually thats not as true as you think, a Billet iss cut from a Chunk of steel and the grains are actually cut thru when it is being carved, but a forged Crank has been beat into its shape at very high temp and force Making the grain of the steel flow with the forging, or so ive been told by more than one Engine builder

That argument has been going on for a long time with good points on both sides. Alot of the pro billet issue has to do with metallurgy of the alloy used.
Here's some good discussion about it starting on pg 2. http://www.popularhotrodding.com/tech/0710phr_crankshaft_tech/index.html

 

[racedaymechanic]

I guess my point was if you used 4340 in a billet or a forged crank, The forged would be stronger but when you get into High end alloys like Titainium then Billet is the only way to go

 

[btfarm]

For the record, I have built many SBCs for street, strip and short track racing and I've ALWAYS been quite happy with forged cranks. At one time I had a nice supply of 'em but I stopped building several years ago (another story that involves a nasty customer) and sold off all my stock.

 

[iamdave0887]

I have at least one cast in 81, 6.2 block. No way of knowing if it is original crank though. I have a couple other "RED" block 6.2s.

Best check that engine and see what you've got there. Do the test above with the hammer and the counter weight. If any 6.2 made it out of the factory with a forged steel crank it's be that 81 engine.