Getting alot of blowback from oil

[JohnnyT]

Also it is making a funny grinding sound while I drive. The sig is my truck

This always had blowback but never this much it has increased alot

The turbo is good I think. it still whines when it should...

Any tips??

 

[DieselCash]

Run thru the checklist and give us as much detail about your truck as you can!

Here is the checklist;

http://www.dieseltowingresource.com/showthread.php?t=6300

 

[JohnnyT]

Problem: Lots of blowback when I start it and it makes a funny grinding sound like its out of oil maybe?

Demographics: tell us about your truck and your ambient conditions:

- Year: 1995
- Truck model and class (ie: c2500) 2500
- Automatic or Standard auto
- Mileage: (indicate miles or km) 200000
- Replaced parts and mods (IP, PMD, chip/PCM, TM, injectors etc) FSD relocated
- Model: ‘S’ or ‘F’ engine, NA or Turbo, EGR? uhh
- Ambient outside temp: (indicate *C or *F) 80f
- What fuel are you using? (#1 Diesel, #2 Diesel, Bio, VO, WVO, etc) ultra low sulfer diesel
- What fuel additives are you using? ULSD cetane booster
- Where are you located? North carolina

General maintenance: inspect and evaluate the condition of each. When were they last changed?
- Air filter good
- Fuel filter good
- CDR Valve? ummm
- Coolant – last flushed/replaced at needs to be very soon
- Oil – synthetic/regular, changed at 1000 miles ago 15w 40
- Batteries – state of charge, (matched set) replaced at they may need replacing
- Battery cables and grounds (removed, cleaned and tightened): good
- Glow Plugs - how many miles on them? original What type? not sure factory
- Injectors - last changed at never


History: (Describe how the problem first appeared.)
- What were you doing when it happened? started it and a puff of black and white smoke came out but not alot and it always has a little white smoke
- How was the truck running fine before this problem appeared? great
- Has this problem ever happened before? no
- Describe any related factors that might be part of the problem. I smoked some people out before parking last night
- Have you checked for DTC (Diagnostic Trouble Codes)? no not yet And? ________


Diagnostics:

1] Starting:
1a] Does the engine start? yes
1b] Does the engine crank over? yes
1c] Are your batteries fully charged? yep
1d] Have you removed, cleaned, and tightened all battery connections? no but it does start ok
1e] Does your Wait to Start light come on for a time? no change
1f] Does your glow plug light come on? no change from regular
1g] Do you see smoke from the exhaust while cranking? What color?usually white but a little black this time

2] Fuel Issues (if not running):
2a] Can you hear your lift pump working? ____________
2b] Do you get a steady flow of fuel from the water drain (T-handle) ? _________
2c] Loosen the inlet line from the IP – is fuel coming out (Lift Pump on)? ___________
2d] Loosen an injector line and crank the engine - does fuel come out? _________
2e] Do you hear a vacuum (hiss) when you remove the fuel cap? ___________

3] PMD / IP Issues
3a] Location of PMD (on pump, on intake, remote mounted) ___________
3b] Condition of Extension harness (if used) Vendor or Homemade? _________
3c] Condition of grounds / ground wires to IP / PMD. Check Harness. _________
3d] PMD Make: ___________
3e] PMD Age: _____________

4] Stalling Issues
4a] Do you experience stalling only when hot? ____________
4b] Does it stall under particular circumstances? (ie hit bump, or on accel) ______
4c] Does pouring cool water over the IP seem to help with restarting? _________
4d] Is stalling momentary (engine recovers)? _________
4e] Does SES light come on when engine hiccups? _________
4f] Does cruise control quit working when engine hiccups? ___________
4g] Does re-starting seem to reset engine, restoring cruise and power? _________
4h] Changes to dash lights or instruments during stalling events? ___________

5] Running Issues
5a] On cold start, does upper rad hose get hard before engine warms up? _______
5b] Any bubbles or oil film in coolant overflow tank? _______
5c] Any white slime on oil surfaces (dipstick, CDR, oil Fill cap)? __________
5d] Excessive white smoke from exhaust on cold start? _________
5e] Excessive black smoke from exhaust under hard acceleration? Yes like a black cloud of death! partly why I love this truck

6] Performance Issues
6a] Do you have gauges? no
6b] Maximum boost under load? ____________
6c] Have you added a performance PCM (reflash) or Chip? ______________
6d] Have you changed exhaust Straight pipe
6e] Wastegate – mechanical or vacuum? vac I belive and it still pulls when I pull the lines wastegate still good

7] Temperature-related Issues:
7a] Single or dual thermostats? not sure loos like only one on the block
7b] Have you replaced them lately? Manufacturer of replacements? no
7c] Have you pulled and cleaned Radiator and coolers lately? no
7d] Have you replaced the fan clutch? Manufacturer of replacement? no
7e] (winter) Have you tested your antifreeze? Good to what temp? no
7f] (winter) Are you using a winter grille cover? no

 

[JMJNet]

The one that you said "ummm", that is the one.

Have you checked your oil level?

 

[JohnnyT]

yes it was a little low but other than that ok I added some but it is still kid of acting up another thing I forgot to mention was that the steering wheel is vibrating

 

[JMJNet]

Check your CDR. That thing looks like a tuna can close to the turbo hook up to the turbo hose that connect to the air filter box. Sounds like you may want to get a new one from Napa.

The steering vibration is a different unrelated problem from blow-by. You have to check your u-joints, pitman arm, brake pad, rotor, etc. for that. Also, when was the last time you put grease on the suspension joints?

 

[Brooklyn Tow]

Check your belt and acc pulleys....

 

[ak diesel driver]

Alot of black smoke with no chip would indicate a plugged air filter or turbo not working properly. Also I would do the blowby test.

 

[JohnnyT]

Ok gonna get the cdr valve thanks for the help. I will lube up some of the things you have sugg. I just looked at the turbo and it is covered in oil no wonder I was low on oil and it has been getting hotter and hotter I thing I will take the rad out and clean it as well as take the intake manifold out at the same time. are there any other things I should check while I have it apart?

 

[gmctd]

What're you talking "blowback"? The oil "all over the turbo" or a lot of oily fumes coming outta the oil filler tube when you remove the cap, which is "blowby"? Or both?

Losing sump oil indicates bad oil leak, as from turbo oil supply or turbo bearings

Second case, pull the tuna can, wipe the oil, see if you can blow thru both ports - if so, plug it back in, hook a tube from the dipstick tube to a bucket of water on the ground, run engine, see if any bubbles in the water - rev to 2000rpm, see if any bubbles in water - few bubbles = normal - lotsa bubbles = plugged pre-filter in the valve cover or worn piston rings

First case, you'll need to wash the cold engine with autozone engine cleaner in the orange and white can, flush with hot water outta the spigot on the bottom of the house water heater, which will dry quickly, run the engine, see where the oil leak is - could be the oil line fitting on the top of the center cartridge - could be the oil-return gasket on the bottom - could be leaky seal in compressor housing which will blow out normal oil from the CDR, and from worn turbine-shaft bearings

 

[JohnnyT]

sorry I mean't blowby not sure what I was thinking anyway cdr is good I can blow through both ends. There is alot of oil going thorugh the cdr and leaking out onto the turbo. more than ever actually. I will go get some tubing and test the dipstick but I am going to guess that I will see lots of bubbles. It is overheating though and since the cdr seems good I guess the cauze could be a bed temp reader or a dirty rad?

Thanks for your sugg It helps to talk to people that actually know what they're talking about

 

[DieselCash]

Johnny,

Have you overheated the motor? How hot by the dash gauge did it get?

These motors do not like a lot of high heat.

How long have you owned this truck?

 

[gmctd]

No prob, blowback fairly well described it, but making assumptions can get you some pretty wild answers - now we're on the same page

Pop the hood, check the area between the ac condenser and the radiator for bugs'n'leaves'n'stuff, causes overheating - constant buildup of stuff in that area is common problem with these trucks

Clean that out so engine doesn't overheat for the tests, then clean the engine so you can find any oil leak(s), then do the blowby test to check for excessive wear, while watching for oil-ooze outta the turbo

 

[JohnnyT]

Well I cleaned the rad out and sprayed the engine. there were alot of bubbles from the hose another thing I forgot to mention was that when I have it running and I open the oil filler tube It sounds like a pot of boiling water only more a metal sound than a water sound... didn't see any oil leaks that really caught my attention what do you think?

o and it gets about 210 215 at the worst but when I see it I always turn on the heater full blast and go easy that usually gets it to cool down in a matter of seconds.

I don't want to sound pessimistic but what do you all think about this?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/6-5-...ptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

 

[gmctd]

That sound is the timing chainset and IP drive and driven gears - sounds sorta like a chainsaw on an iron pipe, but that's normal - at 200k kms or 200kmi, it's about due for a timing chainset

Are the bubbles like a small trickle or a steady trickle, or like a piranha on a kitten?

Give it a week, check for oil leaking around the turbo

 

[buddy]

The CDR is not working necessarily if you can blow through it. It has to be sucked closed (vacuum) to prevent it from sucking oil through it when turbo is boosting. The CDR is fully open at idle so the vapors vent, and as turbo vacuum increases with load (more fuel) the CDR valve closes (not completely though). So running the test with no load may not tell the whole story on it. So under driving load if its not closing you get the oil all in the turbo and intake. The CDR is there to prevent too much depression (negative pressure) in the crankcase, the negative pressure (suction) being caused by the intake vacuum.

I have a lot of blowby regardless if CDR is working or not. If unplug CDR hose its blowing out at idle, if I then open the oil fill it all comes out there and mostly goes away at the CDR. So when engine is idling there is very little vacuum and the pressure probably is going out the CDR, but when you open oil fill tube it would rather escape up there. And there is no negative pressure from vacuum at idle so its not pulling it to the valve cover.

This increased when I put in aftermarket chip and then again when I put in 5W30 synthetic oil.

The real question is then why so much blowby, the fuel is escaping aroung piston rings I guess, but I still have plenty of power and compression checks out OK.

 

[gmctd]

Gotsta understand the underlying concept(s) Buddy - if it's blowing oil out of the engine, the breathing system is stopped up, or the path is stopped up - if he can blow thru the CDR from both directions, the CDR ain't stopped up, so he needs to look elsewhere - and if he's losing engine oil, he needs to find the leak quickly - most drivers don't run anywhere near fwot Boost, anyway, so the CDR is not regulating flow - the water bucket test is good for that, but is dependent on a clean air filter and clean pre-filter in the valve cover

 

[buddy]

Yes, I understand, my point is that the oil could still be escaping through the CDR if youre running boost and its not closing the CDR.

When he said its coming through CDR valve and onto turbo, I believed it to mean in the turbo blades into the intake. Not an engine leak.

Youve eliminated stuck closed CDR by seeing if you can blow through it, stuck closed would be bad, and causing pressure in the crankcase to blow oil out of another weak point in a gasket somewhere or worse. The water test just proves that there is vacuum in the crankcase like there is supposed to be with high RPMs. It doesnt prove if the CDR will close under high boost/high vacuum. So the source of oil can still be a CDR that doesnt close. Its supposed to restrict flow by closing some at high boost or it will suck the oil out of the valve cover.

I am often sustaining 13psi going up and down hills a lot of days. I would get quite a bit of oil in the intake, even with functional CDR. Perhaps it wasn't designed with modified/increased boost in mind. So I just vent my valve cover with a breather, just as it would be doing in the idle state through the CDR when there is no vacuum from the intake. And I see that it vents fine because I can see the blowby rising out of it. If it can vent so well at idle, Im sure it vents just fine under load. I do plan to run it back to the intake when I come up with the mod described before to have it pull blowby from the oil fill tube, because I would prefer to burn those fumes. As it is with my intake under the hood, it probably just sucks the fumes up anyway.

whether or not blowby is a serious issue I do not know, as long as compression check is good. The high stock compression is begging for something to squeeze past the rings I suppose.

 

[gmctd]

At 13psig Boost the CDR will be completely closed - the dirtier the air filter the closeder it is - the spring is calibrated for 7-8psig - at idle and 2000-3000 test rpm there will be little-to-no Boost at sea level - the manometer test verifies that the air filter is clean, and the effluent path is clear thru the pre-screen and CDR, thus the 4-6" H2O vacuum spec (a baby's breath) - years ago, the front-mounted CDR in use at that time would rust internally, becoming stuck, due to the low-temperature crankcase environment of a non-turbo-charged Diesel engine

For reference: gassers (patooie!) run ~26"HG vacuum at idle, more at 2000rpm

1psi = 27"H2O = 2" HG

Fer-eggs-ample-test: put the clear tube in yer mouth like a straw, other end in the bucket of water, make like yer suckin' on a root-beer float (or puttin' a hickie on some floozy!), see how difficult it is to draw the water up the tube ~1-2" - then, see how difficult it is to duplicate the same volume of bubbles you saw with yer engine - that's why the test specs a clean air filter

Idea is to allow the engine to combust all crankcase effluent, since the 6.5 is a light-oil burner (Diesel fuel) - excessive effluent from greatly-worn cylinder constituents has been known to result in runaway-engine conditions - but if he's showing a constant sump-oil loss, it's likely not strictly going thru the CDR, or EPA would be hot on his butt each time he left his driveway with a cease and desist on the roiling blue fog\smog emission

FYI: you usually will get blue smoke from an oil leak, when ingested into the intake system or into the upper cylinder thru worn rings, because normal combustion temps are not hi enuff to ignite the thicker motor oil - get the turbo spooled up and rpms up and EGT's up and it bodes a 'nuther tale, indeed

White (and blue) vapors are resulted when fuel-oil has not reached combustion temps, incomplete ignition - back smoke is resulted from oil that is above combustion temps, has ignited, but oxygen content has been depleted B4 complete burn, incomplete combustion

 

[turbovanman]

I don't want to sound pessimistic but what do you all think about this?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/6-5-...ptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

That is a good deal, a good rebuild kit will cost around a $1000.

This increased when I put in aftermarket chip and then again when I put in 5W30 synthetic oil.

The real question is then why so much blowby, the fuel is escaping aroung piston rings I guess, but I still have plenty of power and compression checks out OK.

Why are you running 5w30?