Fuel system problem?

[RNation]

The symptoms are, it loses power going up hill, black smoke, the engine shakes around a bit, when I go to take off from a stand still it bounces around a bit, and when I'm stopped at a light or something it jumps a little like it wants to take off.
I have had a leak in my fuel filter/housing for a couple weeks, but this problem just started last night. Honestly my fuel filter problem started when I switched to an electrical lifter pump (it has 10 - 14 psi). I did put the mechanical one back on to see what would happen. It ran a little bit better but not full force.
I'm curious if the filter/housing isn't made for that psi that it could have messed with it, then down to the IP. I'm sure theres such a thing as to much PSI to the IP, but how much is that? The IP I have isn't that old, I think it's around 8-10 months old.

 

[RNation]

Did I finally stump you guys or am I asking to many questions?

 

[ak diesel driver]

I'd try a pressure regulator. Bring it back down to 6-8 psi.

 

[buddy]

You can try a different filter housing, any filter setup, NAPA has 12 micron spin on diesel filters and water separators and the adaptor for it is like $45, but 10psi should not blow some seals. Sounds to me like its a fuel supply problem and if you had a leak it may suck air if it ever loses prime, ect... which can cause surging and what not. Have you tried turning the fueling down on the IP? Do you use lubrication in the fuel? I thought you had issues well before switching to the electric pump, at least you posted them.

 

[ak diesel driver]

My limited understanding of db2s tells me that the fuel pressure can affect the timing of the IP.

 

[buddy]

later 6.2 and 6.5s with mechanical injection used the same electric pump. Both the DB2 and the DS4 are affected by IP housing pressure or transfer pressure, but that is from like 15psi to 130psi. The DB2 is more affected timing wise but not by 10psi lift pump.

 

[RNation]

I haven't this problem since I swapped to a drop in 6.2. I've had all kinds of problems though with both motors and motor components, but I think that's expected from a 26 year old vehicle...haha. Oh, and I don't use any lubricants for the fuel.

So perhaps I should start with the fuel filter setup. Because like you said, with it leaking it could be sucking in air. Maybe the electric lifter pump was just a coincidence that the FF housing started leaking around the time I installed it.

There is an adapter for the FF housing? I didn't know that, that's why I bought A used one. Do you know if the adapter will require much customizing? And I'm guessing the 12 micron filter is what is recommended? Also do you know if it has the fuel heater and air seperator? I just want to get it as close as stock as I can. Another thing on my FF housing is that there's 3 wire connectors, 1 heater, 1 water in fuel sensor, and I have no idea about the 3rd one.

Thanks for the replies, and sorry for all the questions.

 

[buddy]

You can try to find a stock 6.5 fuel filter manager with the heater and WIF and use that instead.

The one at Napa I have I use as a pre-filter and does not have a heater or WIF, it was just a spin on adapter with fittings to put in line on the fuel line.

If the IP has been running on regular #2 ULSD for many months with no lubrication it could have problems.

I cant find any pictures of the box fuel filter housing, anyone have one?

 

[RNation]

Sorry about the wrong information, I did have this problem recently with the fuel filter housing. I do apologize, it has been a very busy week with work, I've been running on little sleep so I think everything was just running together.

I'm going to call Napa though and see if I can make that work. Should the wire connections be the same as the one I have now? And is the fuel heater important? I know it stops the fuel from gelling in low temp areas but does it come standard on most diesel motors?

I didn't know that #2 ULSD (what I buy at gas stations right?) was bad for the IP with out a lubricant. Any lubricant recommended?

 

[buddy]

No problem, just need to get yourself a solid filter system to rule it out as the issue.

Here is a picture of the one I got at Napa without WIF or heater, so it need no cables. But fuel heater can be important in freezing temps. Its just like an oil filter, spin on, it is filter and water separator. It can be installed anywhere, just run fuel line to it.

Here you see the top spin on adapter/mount


And you can see the drain in the bottom of it, but its not clear so you can see the water


That setup was OK for me because its never freezing where I am and even if it is the stock fuel heater is still in place.

For a comprehensive solution one out of a newer 6.2/6.5 from a junkyard or online salvage places. Or here is a Racor setup with clear water bowl, primer, and heater. They sell these without primers for like $50 less as well, and some you can get with water sensors too. They have 4 pages of diesel filters with different options.
http://www.allpointsmarineco.com/view/245/934/

One of the site vendors may also be able to hook you up with a nice Racor unit with heater and WIF.

 

[RNation]

I've been doing some looking around tonight and have come up with a couple different filter setups. I like the one you pointed out, but it's kind of tuff on my wallet, however if I need to I will get it. The link you posted, is that the filter setup that's best for my motor or is some of the cheaper ones ok too? I guess I don't want to over do it and also I don't want to under do it.

Here's one that looks similar to mine but I'm not sure if it's the exact same as there's not a very detailed description.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1-M1008-M1009-FUEL-FILTER-HOUSING-24285-NOS-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem439fa45631QQitemZ290441156145QQptZOtherQ5fVehicleQ5fParts

And another one I found but I don't know if I can mount it in my suburban with out making some modifications.
http://www.thedieselstore.com/template/productOutput.php?&partNum=STA29367&VehNum=

 

[buddy]

That second one is what we have in the later 6.2/6.5 trucks. It will work well and comes with the WIF sensor and heater for a low price. I got filters at Rockauto for $10 a piece plus shipping. We mount them wherever in the engine bay. Just need to bolt it onto something, with some brackets or whatever, no big deal. Then splice in your WIF and heater lines. we can find the wire diagrams for them to figure out which wire goes to which.

 

[RNation]

Then perhaps I'll go with that one. Does anyone have an extra mounting bracket or know where I can get one from? And I think $170 was the cheapest I found it for, does anyone know of any place cheaper? What about the "micron", I have no idea what that is. I know it has to do with how good the filter filters stuff but I don't know whats recommeneded.

 

[RNation]

Do you think I could get some angle iron and rig something up without doing any welding? I havn't welded before and that's out of my are of expertise, I could make a nice one out of drywall....haha.

 

[buddy]

Yes, just make a bracket out of some metal angle or whatever at the hardware store and bolt it together. Here is a picture of my homemade setup. They normally set down in the engine valley behind the intake, there are two bolt holes on the actual lower intake it bolts down to in stock position. Two f my 10mm rods are sticking up out of the two stock bolt locations. Member Bison mounted his on the fender. So just make a braket, maybe get a 1/4" piece of aluminum and just cut out like a semicircle, drill two holes to bolt the filter to. Then either bolt that down to fender bolts or bend the back of the metal down or up to mount it to something.



And here is where we do the "feed the beast" mod by increasing the size of the output, but I am not sure if the DB2 on a non-turbo would ever need that.


The micron rating is how small of dirt or whatever will get fitered. Anything under 10micron and under is good enough for a single filter. 5 micron is good.

 

[RNation]

Cool, that should be simple enough, I think. Does this filter base have an air seperator? And what micron element should be use?

 

[buddy]

It is not an air separator, not sure any of them do that. The standard filter for that is a 5 micron one. Just look up the filter for any 92-2000 6.5 diesel truck.

 

[RNation]

My bad, I think it's just an air bleeder, but whatever it is this one has it. And I got it installed.


I'm still having some of the motor shakiness problem but I haven't taken it for a test drive yet. We're playing with the timing for a bit to see if that helps any.

 

[buddy]

Wow you got that quick, must of had one local. Did your stock setup come with a water drain valve to attach the drain line too, or did you have to add a valve? Its a good filter setup for that price.

Just need to make sure you seat the filter down in the correct clocking position, because it only goes down one way for proper seating. It looks like you probably got that though.

Once youve resolve all leaks on the pressure side of the fuel pump, it may be time to investigate for rusty lines pre pump that can suck air. You can also use a short length of clear hose on the filter output, IP input or IP return. And watch for air bubbles. When messing with the lines like this it takes a while to get all the air out too, a 20 min drive should have it all cleared out though.

And as you have found the filter itself has the air bleeder. Good luck with the timing, I have no experience with the mechanical timing.

 

[RNation]

Well I went for a test drive but the truck still had the original problems. It seams like before it changes gears, the motor revs up but it lacks power. It's kind of like the motors spinning but thats it. It still bounces when I'm at a stand still and when I go to take off also. My buddy said he thinks it's acting like it's mis-firing. He thinks it's either the injectors or the IP. Also we did advance and retard the timing a bit but both held the same symptoms.

On another note, the heater plug fits for the new fuel filter but the "water in fuel" plug doesn't (I think thats what the other plug is for). My old one has 4 wires, the new has 3. So if anyone has a wiring diagram for the two filter bases that would help out, or maybe point me in a direction.