FIRST DIESEL!!!

[bearskevin]

Ok I probably should not have done so much right away but I guess I "assumed" that their wont be much of a difference between gas and diesel. you know give it air, fuel and fire it runs. key word I learned for a diesel is "must" have the right amount of air fuel and fire.....

Problem: Explain your problem in concise language (ie: Cranks but won’t fire). ____cranks (destroying batteries LOL) but wont fire________________________

Demographics: tell us about your truck and your ambient conditions:

- Year: __1984____
- Truck model and class (ie: c2500) ____gmc jimmy _____
- Automatic or Standard ____auto______ (new rebult tranny has yet to fire with it in)
- Mileage: (indicate miles or km) ___99,780______(odometer doesn't go past 99,000 so no clue....)
- Replaced parts and mods (IP, PMD, chip/PCM, TM, injectors etc) ___________
- Model: ‘S’ or ‘F’ engine, NA or Turbo, EGR? _____turbo 6.2L no EGR_________
- Ambient outside temp: (indicate *C or *F) _____68' southern california_____
- What fuel are you using? (#1 Diesel, #2 Diesel, Bio, VO, WVO, etc) ___#2______(3/4 of fuel tank full)
- What fuel additives are you using? _____none______ ( no smog junk added or needed either)
- Where are you located? ______Rossmoor_______ northern orange county near long beach California

General maintenance: inspect and evaluate the condition of each. When were they last changed?
- Air filter ___usable______ came with purchase
- Fuel filter ____new _____changed 2 weeks ago
- CDR Valve? ___new______ changed 2 weeks ago
- Coolant – last flushed/replaced at _____new________ changed 2 weeks ago
- Oil – synthetic/regular, changed at ____new_______ changed 2 weeks ago
- Batteries – state of charge, (matched set) replaced at ____1 new optima red top (bought yesterday) 1 interstate or champion_________ (champion and interstate are original from vehicle purchase before a starter welded itself to run and burned up)
- Battery cables and grounds (removed, cleaned and tightened): _____new cables_________ week old
- Glow Plugs - how many miles on them? ____0_____ What type? _____________
- Injectors - last changed at ______2 new BWD _________ changed week ago


History: (Describe how the problem first appeared.)
- What were you doing when it happened? ______just purchased vehicle drove it for a week knowing bad tranny, got rebuilt tranny installed, changed the following during same event:
fuel filter, valve cover gasket, intake manifold gasket, oil pan & gasket, oil filter, flush radiator new coolant, new glow plugs, new starter ( 28Mt gear reduction)________
- How was the truck running fine before this problem appeared? ____good but sounded like might have a miss, also leaked oil (see above list for corrected actions) occasionally would not start (this was due to a bad starter solenoid (see starter fire above) ______
- Has this problem ever happened before? _________never air locked, after all parts were changed after starter fire was leaking fuel at injectors (2) and at return lines (2 also)______________
- Describe any related factors that might be part of the problem. ____time line__________
purchased a 6.2l turbo diesel a month ago> drove around waiting for new tranny buying an assortment of fluids, gaskets and glow plugs> 2 weeks I guess go buy> took a week to change the following ( had to go to work also) Tranny, oil pan, front leaf springs changed to a lift, rear leaf springs on lift blocks ( for now), oil dipstick tube, valve cover gasket, intake manifold gasket, glow plugs flushed radiator, got fluids put into it and try to start after priming the fuel system used the air compressor method and bleed at fuel filter.......yup you guesses it starter solenoid locked and caused fire... replaced starter> leaking at injectors and fuel return lines on injectors now.> replaced to the 2 injectors (fixed injector leak) got the correct return lines for each injector (fixed injector return line leaks).> go to prime and crank and it wont. chased it down to fuel is in filter/ fuel is in the Injection pump (even found a hole in the steel line from filter to injection pump patched it) fuel is not getting to injectors now (insert curse words when found this out here )
- Have you checked for DTC (Diagnostic Trouble Codes)? (Y.N) __n__ And? ____will be soon____


Diagnostics:

1] Starting:
1a] Does the engine start? ___y______
1b] Does the engine crank over? ____n____
1c] Are your batteries fully charged? ____optima yes champion no_____
1d] Have you removed, cleaned, and tightened all battery connections? __y______
1e] Does your Wait to Start light come on for a time? How long? ____manual glow plug switch_____
1f] Does your glow plug light come on? ____y_____ For how long? ____forever haha_____
1g] Do you see smoke from the exhaust while cranking? What color? ____nope____
1h] Does the Service Engine Light Glow during Start/bulb check? ___nope_____

2] Fuel Issues (if not running):
2a] Can you hear your lift pump working? _____mechanical cant hear it_______
2b] Do you get a steady flow of fuel from the water drain (T-handle) ? ___????______
2c] Loosen the inlet line from the IP – is fuel coming out (Lift Pump on)? ____need to check but IP is full of fuel_______
2d] Loosen an injector line and crank the engine - does fuel come out? ___no______
2e] Do you hear a vacuum (hiss) when you remove the fuel cap? _____yes______

3] PMD / IP Issues
3a] Location of PMD (on pump, on intake, remote mounted) ____on pump _______
3b] Condition of Extension harness (if used) Vendor or Homemade? ____na_____
3c] Condition of grounds / ground wires to IP / PMD. Check Harness. ___all cleaned______
3d] PMD Make: ___________
3e] PMD Age: _____________

4] Stalling Issues
4a] Do you experience stalling only when hot? _____n_______
4b] Does it stall under particular circumstances? (ie hit bump, or on accel) __n____
4c] Does pouring cool water over the IP seem to help with restarting? ____n_____
4d] Is stalling momentary (engine recovers)? ____n_____
4e] Does SES light come on when engine hiccups? ____n_____
4f] Does cruise control quit working when engine hiccups? _____n______
4g] Does re-starting seem to reset engine, restoring cruise and power? ____n_____
4h] Changes to dash lights or instruments during stalling events? ____n_______

5] Running Issues
5a] On cold start, does upper rad hose get hard before engine warms up? _n______
5b] Any bubbles or oil film in coolant overflow tank? __empty_____
5c] Any white slime on oil surfaces (dipstick, CDR, oil Fill cap)? _____n_____
5d] Excessive white smoke from exhaust on cold start? ____n_____
5e] Excessive black smoke from exhaust under hard acceleration? ____n______

6] Performance Issues
6a] Do you have gauges (boost, EGT) ? _____turbo boost exhaust temp______
6b] Maximum boost under load? _____10_______
6c] Have you added a performance PCM (reflash) or Chip? ______n________
6d] Have you changed exhaust / downpipe / crossover? ________n________
6e] Wastegate – mechanical or vacuum (OEM)? _______n_______

7] Temperature-related Issues:
7a] Single or dual thermostats? ______n______
7b] Have you replaced them lately? Manufacturer of replacements? ____n_____
7c] Have you pulled and cleaned Radiator and coolers lately? _____n_______
7d] Have you replaced the fan clutch? Manufacturer of replacement? _____n___
7e] (winter) Have you tested your antifreeze? Good to what temp? ____n______
7f] (winter) Are you using a winter grille cover? ____n_______

List and describe any other factors which are not addressed in this checklist. We can’t see, hear, smell, or touch your truck, so the more descriptive information you can give, the more likely it is that somebody can assist you.

_____________I have checked the fuel shut off solenoid I hear an electrical click is there supposed to be a mechanical click ____________________ lets start with all of this

 

[WarWagon]

So your IP is clicking with the pink wire. This is the fuel shut off so power going to it is a good thing.

Diesels need to spin over at 100 RPM minimum to start. This is fast vs. a gas engine and why they wack 2 batteries pretty hard to do so.

I would put a clear 1/4 fuel line of the fuel return from the IP (Injection Pump) to the steel return line. Look for air when spinning over. The IP is a PIA to prime after air locking it. Crank 30 seconds at a time foot to floor with 2 min cooling between tries.

Your Mech fuel pump is suspect. Check the oil for diesel smell. Fuel filter housings leak air and can cause hard starting. You have the square filter? Orings on the restriction sensor and other areas leak air on the filter housing. Electric lift pumps may be a better choice esp after filter changes.

Both batteries new AGM Optimas? You should not mix old and new batteries as the old one will drag down the new one. Different types like flooded and AGM should not be mixed.
I would test both batteries and check the cables including ground points. You may have fried a ground or cable and the cranking amps could be closing the IP shutoff. You could be cranking slow.
Test the glow plug system for voltage at each glow plug as the fire could have hurt the wiring. It could have burned out the plugs if you burned a ground off with the starter spinning. (Reverse current flow through the plugs - I have seen it when I blew a ground on my 88.)

Do not use starting fluid or you can kiss your glow plugs goodbye, break them off, and possibly bend rods.

Codes on a 1984? :rof: Maybe it has a EGR computer - likely no ECM to get codes from on the vehicle.

 

[bearskevin]

- Have you checked for DTC (Diagnostic Trouble Codes)? (Y.N) __n__ And? ____will be soon____


I guess I could have made a better funny than "will be soon" my bad oh well it is still funny to a reader......


yeah the clear return line is unnecessary I checked it is bone dry.

Mech pump definetly might be suspect I had to pull it out and place it back in to get to a line from the turbo to the new oil pan.

I will smell the new oil and check for diesel.

neglected to check the grounds that I will get the meter out and start to check all of them and check the glow plugs as you suggest

oh and no way is wd40 or ether going into it...

will repost after checking all of the above....

 

[just a number]

couple of questions. which turbo setup are you using, banks, gmX or something else. I was just wondering why you removed the fuel pump to do an oil line. when you replaced the pump did you make sure the pushrod was pushed back. they'll slide back down on ya.

and welcome to the truck stop. we'll get you back up and running

 

[bearskevin]

couple of questions. which turbo setup are you using, banks, gmX or something else. I was just wondering why you removed the fuel pump to do an oil line. when you replaced the pump did you make sure the pushrod was pushed back. they'll slide back down on ya.

and welcome to the truck stop. we'll get you back up and running

the turbo is definitely not the banks sidewinder not sure about the gmx(???) I will try to attach a picture. looks like some one who owned might have bought a few parts and maybe even machined some parts for It as well.

turbo oil return line runs right below it to a threaded (nipple?) or pipe fitting at the oil pan..... IDK the name I just found the right plumbing made my weld and hole on the oil pan got the plumbing done for it.....

the turbo says technics I believe maybe turbo technics..... worked good before this.....
you know there are a couple of things in question now the mechanical lift pump might be the big one. I have had people helping me as second hands on some of this work....

how much and how difficult is the electric pump? I mean I know they sell some cheap ones for gas but diesel need some advice here and should I add another filter before it or after it????? both???

 

[bearskevin]

just a number and war wagon thanks.......
little background I am serving my last 40 +/- days in the army for 15 years and this truck is to be my new dependable everyday driver while I look for a new job when I got back home. I sold my jeep wrangler because I still owed a note on it. This truck is paid for in cash and now sweat blood and beer....

 

[3500GMC]

Thanks for your service sir.

Hope you can get the Blazer going.. It looks like a real solid rig. Looks good. :thumbsup:

 

[tanman_2006]

for an electric pump check out burningoil (screen name) or leroydiesel.com (his web site). Walbro frb5 is what you are looking for, you might have to do some custom wiring.

 

[just a number]

for the mechanical to electric pump is an easy changeover. the mechanical pump comes off and put a blockoff plate in it's place. the plate is just for a small block chev. the electric pump can be mounted on the frame somewhere convenient and you only need and IGN controlled power supply.

if you want to keep the mechanical pump, pump some grease on the pushrod before you put the pump in. it'll stay up while you put the pump it.

as for the turbo where is it? I see the pipes for it, but not the turbo itself.

 

[bearskevin]

Sorry for the delay in posting.... so I found an airtex fuel pump from oreillys. I have a small in-line filter before the pump and it is mounted half way down the frame where the metal fuel lines already had a break to rubber lines. so the electric pump runs at about 10 psi apparently (installed fuel PSI gauge before square filter) I know that is hi so I will have to get a regulator as well. good news it primed the system bad news it still wont start with the electric pump. I also replace 2nd battery with another optima so now have 2 optima red top with 800cca & 1000ca. checked the grounds and checked for volts at the glow plug with manual switch on all were good. the only thing that seems out of place now is a clicking noise last maybe for 2 seconds a continuous click. sounds like a relay that I had on my old 68 mustang....IDK....oh and removed mech pump blocked it off as well.. ran new lines from metal fuel line all the way to filter also new line from filter to Injection pump.....still no fuel at injectors and of course previously mentioned clicking noise...



I will get a pic of the turbo as well for you....

 

[ak diesel driver]

try removing all the glowplugs and then crank it over with full throttle. no cylinder pressure helps any air blockage to be able to be pumped thru easier

 

[Will L.]

if you want to keep the mechanical pump, pump some grease on the pushrod before you put the pump in. it'll stay up while you put the pump it.

I realize you deletetd yours, but for others... If you look on the front of the block there is a bolt that goes into the block that apparently holds nothing. The function is for the fuel pump push rod. Before removing the pump, remove the bolt and replace it with a bolt about 1" longer, just snug it. The bolt is pressed against the rod and will hold it while you r&r the fuel pump. When done just remove the longer bolt, coat the original bolt w/ a dab of silicone (oil seepage) and reinstall.

10 psi too high so a pressure regulator? Not that I'm aware,usually everyone ties to get higher pressure feeding the ip. Something about the square filter maybe?

 

[3500GMC]

I realize you deletetd yours, but for others... If you look on the front of the block there is a bolt that goes into the block that apparently holds nothing. The function is for the fuel pump push rod. Before removing the pump, remove the bolt and replace it with a bolt about 1" longer, just snug it. The bolt is pressed against the rod and will hold it while you r&r the fuel pump. When done just remove the longer bolt, coat the original bolt w/ a dab of silicone (oil seepage) and reinstall.

10 psi too high so a pressure regulator? Not that I'm aware,usually everyone ties to get higher pressure feeding the ip. Something about the square filter maybe?

Not sure if these mid 50's engine mount locations (think 265 SBC in the shoeboxes) are used on the 6.2/5 blocks?? Would it be the 2nd hole up on the left side of the pic? All those are for the timing cover.
.

 

[Will L.]

New rule for me. No more posting when tired! Wtf was I thinking that hole is only on the old gassers (sbc, bbc) Sorry about that.

I do believe he does not need the fuel pressure regulator though. Or am I just broken the the hat rack?

 

[just a number]

10 psi before the filter sounds close the mark. figure in a 2 psi drop by the time it gets through the filter would put it right around the 7-8 pi sweet spot.

as for my earlier post, I can't say I seem to remember deleting it.:shrug:

 

[just a number]

try removing all the glowplugs and then crank it over with full throttle. no cylinder pressure helps any air blockage to be able to be pumped thru easier

nevermind alot easier on the starter.

the clicking noise, any idea of a general area it's coming from? there's a couple of possibilities, a bad glow plug controller/wiring, power supply for the IP.

I know there are a few more things just can't think of them.:mad2:

 

[BigBearZach]

mine clicked when the battary terminal wasnt tight enough and it wasnt getting a good enough charge

 

[bearskevin]

OK OK i know i have not posted in a while but there has been a lot going on; i have recieved my discharge from the army and i have moved to louisiana (where i am from). Well the truck is still not running. i had a motor sgt (mechanic) friend from the my unit come and look at the truck we took off glow plugs and we chased down any loose wire we could find. long story short we came to the conclusion it was the IP:mad2:. new DB 2829-4845(4254 need to recheck those numbers but basically humvee model) was mounted on and still no fuel making its way to the injectors. clear hose has no bubbles on the return line. my next thought is gutting the standyne 80 filter housing and filter and replacing with a racor 445:thumbsup:....please any comments ......
so the clicking is definetly electrical (dee tee dee) sorry the location might help seems to be around the :skep:glow plug controller and all of that ...
i greatly appreciate the help i am at my wits end. this truck will be brand new soon at this rate...

 

[just a number]

so right now you have fuel going the IP and returning? but nothing makes it to the injectors? have you cracked and of the lines it the injectors to help bleed some of the air out?

 

[bearskevin]

so right now you have fuel going the IP and returning? but nothing makes it to the injectors? have you cracked and of the lines it the injectors to help bleed some of the air out?

I removed the glow plugs and it turns very easily but no fuel spray. very dry. i removed the line for the number 1 injector at the back of the pump and nothing.