toytruckman
New Member
What do you all think, how long is too long???????????
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Extended Idle?
- Thread starter toytruckman
- Start date
- Staff
- #2
Some leave theirs running all night with high idle on... It's a good questions thats been debated.
- Staff
- #3
I don't think any amount of idling is particularly a good idea after warmup but I also don't think it's extremely harmful. Guys that work in extreme cold at a jobsite have done an extended amount with few problems. I see it as reducing overall engine life.
1 hour of idle is roughly equivalent to 33 road driven miles. Just take that into account.
When I was living in the arctic climate of northern NY state, mine idled all the time. I did it with my 04.5 as well and never had a problem. Diesels are different animals though and I would think are better suited for idling. I'm sure you know but diesels generate very little heat at idle and dont burn much fuel so you're not hurting anything, just putting on wear and tear on the motor, just the same as driving it.
I wouldn't worry too much about it.
When I was living in the arctic climate of northern NY state, mine idled all the time. I did it with my 04.5 as well and never had a problem. Diesels are different animals though and I would think are better suited for idling. I'm sure you know but diesels generate very little heat at idle and dont burn much fuel so you're not hurting anything, just putting on wear and tear on the motor, just the same as driving it.
I wouldn't worry too much about it.
toytruckman
New Member
Ok so is there a good rule of thumb for hours to miles?
So I let mine warm up for 10min. before I drive off then like a Grandmaw till it's up to temp; then 2min. cool down when TIT goes to 300*F.
Too Much????????
So I let mine warm up for 10min. before I drive off then like a Grandmaw till it's up to temp; then 2min. cool down when TIT goes to 300*F.
Too Much????????
- Staff
- #6
I think you're being way too conservative but there's nothing wrong with that.
RYDNHI4X4
Halt Halt Or I'll Release My Dog
10 minutes is just fine. When I was in upstate NY I did that 10 minute warm up pretty much everyday in the winter and have not had any issues.
schulte
ACCELLERANT!!!
Generally, idling could only be harmful if you're running a really fuel heavy tune... risk washing down the cylinders and contaminating your oil.
This is an opinion from Cummins....
"Solution:
We publish and state some simple guidelines, but we have no official policy for diesel engine idling. Basically, engines are made to work and not idle. Excessive idle shortens oil drain intervals, is classified as "severe duty" service, and - under the worst of conditions - can lead to engine damage.
One issue with excessive idling is injector carboning which can lead to premature failure or increased injector maintenance. Excessive idling can also cause carbon build up on pistons and piston rings, which can lead to excess oil consumption.
Anything more than 30-40% idle is considered severe duty service, but how that percent idle is attained may be worse than severe. We generally don't like to see engines idled for more than 10 minutes. If the idle speed is increased to 1,100 -1,200 rpm then internal engine temperatures are warm enough to prevent the worst case damage and also pollute the air less.
Low oil sump temperatures, combined with low ambient air temps and low speed idle cause incomplete combustion, producing sludge, carbon deposits on injectors and internal engine components, weak organic acids in the oil - and, ultimately lead to valve sticking and bent pushtubes/pushrods.
There are options. Idling up the RPM as stated above is one. "Smart" systems which turn the engine off/on (while maintaining adequate coolant temperature) are another. Cummins has a system called ICON which does just that. Sometimes though, the engine needs to run - not just for the comfort, but for the safety of the operator. Arctic operations are an example.
Generally, people have held the traditional belief that diesels should just "hammer away" at idle, and this is sort of a "diesel thing." This is an old belief that needs to be dispelled. Operators and drivers prefer to keep the engine running for warmth in the winter and for A/C in the summer. Actual idle times are higher than one would expect, except for disciplined fleets which either reward for low idle times or provide other incentives.
In past studies, Cummins has determined that low speed idle can contaminate the oil at between 1-1/2 to over twice the normal rate; this is one of the main reasons for recommending "severe duty" maintenance intervals for engines operating with more than 40% idle time. Another reason is that, if sump temperatures are not sufficiently high, the water (produced by combustion, let alone condensation) will not be heated enough to evaporate from the oil.
In the Dodge/Ram Cummins midrange engine application, both Dodge and Cummins have recommended owners to limit idle time to 5 minutes and have also offered a software upgrade "idle up" feature, which increases the idle speed, warming up the engine enough to limit incomplete combustion byproducts.
There may be some balance in stop-and-go driving and urban delivery, wherein one would trade off the benefits to be gained from reducing idle time against the fact that shutting the engine down (every time it's not pulling a load) necessarily creates a "starting event." If the "off time" is long enough, there is a transient starting event time where the oil pressure is not fully established and the engine is running. Accelerated wear can occur during these conditions. In hot temperatures, when the oil is thinner, the oil drains away quickly so some degree of idle may be preferred to starting/stopping and restating the engine fifty times a day.
Common sense may be the best guideline. Common sense would include an appreciation of the above and factor in outside temperature, whether or not the engine will be run for a long enough time later in the day (to burn off carbon and water), how long the idle is, whether or not the A/C needs to be run, etc. Again, one of the parameters defining "severe duty" is excessive idle time; running at idle for more than ten (10) minutes probably doesn't make sense; the "smart idle" ICON-type devices will help; balancing the cost of excessive idle vs. the utility/necessity/option of idle, etc.... all of these considerations should be factored in."
This is an opinion from Cummins....
"Solution:
We publish and state some simple guidelines, but we have no official policy for diesel engine idling. Basically, engines are made to work and not idle. Excessive idle shortens oil drain intervals, is classified as "severe duty" service, and - under the worst of conditions - can lead to engine damage.
One issue with excessive idling is injector carboning which can lead to premature failure or increased injector maintenance. Excessive idling can also cause carbon build up on pistons and piston rings, which can lead to excess oil consumption.
Anything more than 30-40% idle is considered severe duty service, but how that percent idle is attained may be worse than severe. We generally don't like to see engines idled for more than 10 minutes. If the idle speed is increased to 1,100 -1,200 rpm then internal engine temperatures are warm enough to prevent the worst case damage and also pollute the air less.
Low oil sump temperatures, combined with low ambient air temps and low speed idle cause incomplete combustion, producing sludge, carbon deposits on injectors and internal engine components, weak organic acids in the oil - and, ultimately lead to valve sticking and bent pushtubes/pushrods.
There are options. Idling up the RPM as stated above is one. "Smart" systems which turn the engine off/on (while maintaining adequate coolant temperature) are another. Cummins has a system called ICON which does just that. Sometimes though, the engine needs to run - not just for the comfort, but for the safety of the operator. Arctic operations are an example.
Generally, people have held the traditional belief that diesels should just "hammer away" at idle, and this is sort of a "diesel thing." This is an old belief that needs to be dispelled. Operators and drivers prefer to keep the engine running for warmth in the winter and for A/C in the summer. Actual idle times are higher than one would expect, except for disciplined fleets which either reward for low idle times or provide other incentives.
In past studies, Cummins has determined that low speed idle can contaminate the oil at between 1-1/2 to over twice the normal rate; this is one of the main reasons for recommending "severe duty" maintenance intervals for engines operating with more than 40% idle time. Another reason is that, if sump temperatures are not sufficiently high, the water (produced by combustion, let alone condensation) will not be heated enough to evaporate from the oil.
In the Dodge/Ram Cummins midrange engine application, both Dodge and Cummins have recommended owners to limit idle time to 5 minutes and have also offered a software upgrade "idle up" feature, which increases the idle speed, warming up the engine enough to limit incomplete combustion byproducts.
There may be some balance in stop-and-go driving and urban delivery, wherein one would trade off the benefits to be gained from reducing idle time against the fact that shutting the engine down (every time it's not pulling a load) necessarily creates a "starting event." If the "off time" is long enough, there is a transient starting event time where the oil pressure is not fully established and the engine is running. Accelerated wear can occur during these conditions. In hot temperatures, when the oil is thinner, the oil drains away quickly so some degree of idle may be preferred to starting/stopping and restating the engine fifty times a day.
Common sense may be the best guideline. Common sense would include an appreciation of the above and factor in outside temperature, whether or not the engine will be run for a long enough time later in the day (to burn off carbon and water), how long the idle is, whether or not the A/C needs to be run, etc. Again, one of the parameters defining "severe duty" is excessive idle time; running at idle for more than ten (10) minutes probably doesn't make sense; the "smart idle" ICON-type devices will help; balancing the cost of excessive idle vs. the utility/necessity/option of idle, etc.... all of these considerations should be factored in."
Ed HD
Formerly: Dad's 05 LLY
Diesels use the most fuel on start-up, just how they are. <5 minute wait, it stays idling. >5 minutes, it gets shut off, unless I'm sitting in it and it's really cold or really hot out, lol. In the winter, there is no waiting idling for me, as the truck sits in the heated shop. I also don't DD it, no one in our family does. In the winter it's basically backup, or for doing farm stuff.