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Does a Nat Asp 6.5 have a higher compression ratio?
- Thread starter Drago
- Start date
Husker6.5
135' diagonal 16:9HD, 25KW sound!
Technically, no. Years later in production the CR was dropped a couple of tenths in the turbo models, but it makes no difference.
Husker6.5
135' diagonal 16:9HD, 25KW sound!
As long as you don't go over 15psi sustained boost, you "shouldn't".
JayTheCPA
Well-Known Member
Depending on what you are actually up to, IIRC the gizmo's that made swirly air only made money for their inventor, but did nothing for the buyer's efficiency except to lighten the wallet. So check into whether somebody already blazed the trail.
The swirly ram air systems are great, but you got watch em close. Get a swirly exhaust and Watch Out!!
Ed HD
Formerly: Dad's 05 LLY
I think they're talking about this:
Thats it, the Swirly exhaust mod. Thats what I put in my exhaust tip. Worth 40hp and 3mpgs.
NVW
Well-Known Member
Love the tip Leroy, In my soon to be next order I'll need another.
Husker6.5
135' diagonal 16:9HD, 25KW sound!
I thought you guys were talking about the one that looked like a turbine that went into the air intake tract post filter. The theory was that it would induce swirling turbulence down into the combustion chamber as the intake valve opened, thus promoting both denser air charge into the cylinder and more complete combustion from finer atomization due to the swirl when the sparkplug fired. Claim was an additional 10hp and 13lb/ft on a 5.7L Vortec Camero. They also listed a model to fit 6.2/6.5 na diesels, too.
I wish I could find a link to one. I think J.C. Whitney used to have them in their catalogs back in the late 80's - early 90's, boy does that date me!
I wish I could find a link to one. I think J.C. Whitney used to have them in their catalogs back in the late 80's - early 90's, boy does that date me!
Ed HD
Formerly: Dad's 05 LLY
I think that's what I posted above?
Husker6.5
135' diagonal 16:9HD, 25KW sound!
IIRC, I believe they were called Vornado.
Will L.
Well-Known Member
No,
Tornado. I was working for a gas dealer at the time those came out. They were worried it might actually work enough to impact the end sales, so we did a bunch of testing on them. They actually worked a little bit in a couple of engines.
Lucky for me one it worked for was my wife's car at the time. A 96 Chrysler LHS. Dyno showed 5 ponies an
Tornado. I was working for a gas dealer at the time those came out. They were worried it might actually work enough to impact the end sales, so we did a bunch of testing on them. They actually worked a little bit in a couple of engines.
Lucky for me one it worked for was my wife's car at the time. A 96 Chrysler LHS. Dyno showed 5 ponies an
Will L.
Well-Known Member
Sorry got pulled away...
Also small increase in torque and MPG. There were a couple of other engines it worked a little bit in, carbureted.
The most interesting one was a 289 One of the guys rebuilt himself. He built entire engine and ran it, then later pulled his heads off and did a swirl port job on them. He was always telling us about the little extra power and mpg increase he got from that. When we put the tornado in his Mustang he had a loss of power and loss of MPG. We later installed it backwards, along with many of the others, and found He gained the exact amount over base line that he had lost from us installing it the first time. That let us all to believe it amplified his reporting in One Direction, and counteracted it in the other.
In the end we never bothered putting it through out our fleet. Just not worth it.
I know there is been a lot of knockoffs made from the original, and read reports on a bunch of them having no effect. I would never buy one, but if one were given to me for an old, carbureted engine, I put it in and see what happens.
Also small increase in torque and MPG. There were a couple of other engines it worked a little bit in, carbureted.
The most interesting one was a 289 One of the guys rebuilt himself. He built entire engine and ran it, then later pulled his heads off and did a swirl port job on them. He was always telling us about the little extra power and mpg increase he got from that. When we put the tornado in his Mustang he had a loss of power and loss of MPG. We later installed it backwards, along with many of the others, and found He gained the exact amount over base line that he had lost from us installing it the first time. That let us all to believe it amplified his reporting in One Direction, and counteracted it in the other.
In the end we never bothered putting it through out our fleet. Just not worth it.
I know there is been a lot of knockoffs made from the original, and read reports on a bunch of them having no effect. I would never buy one, but if one were given to me for an old, carbureted engine, I put it in and see what happens.
schiker
Well-Known Member
I could see where for some instances it would help an engine with carburetor. I have thought looking in the throats of some carburetor at the stream of gas while starting or bump from low rpm it could benefit help to mix air and fuel. It might help lift off some vapor from the walls or plenum at low air flow ????? I don't think this will transfer to a Diesel especially an IDI one though. I would think it would just be a restriction dropped in a NA diesel intake.
I have wondered about what ifs of some magical nozzle intake affect to help flush out the precup on intake stroke. It might provide a bit of improvement. Big IF there are any waste gasses still in precup from previous cycle ???? Just imaginary stuff really.
I think the IDI creates more swirl once combustion starts than any intake runner could ever do????
I have wondered about what ifs of some magical nozzle intake affect to help flush out the precup on intake stroke. It might provide a bit of improvement. Big IF there are any waste gasses still in precup from previous cycle ???? Just imaginary stuff really.
I think the IDI creates more swirl once combustion starts than any intake runner could ever do????
FellowTraveler
Well-Known Member
Helmholtz effect on intake efficiency as the distance between the throttle plate to intake valve increases the engines peak efficiency goes to lower rpm range.
Ram air is not necessary with longer intake runners as the engine rpm increases it no longer pulls the air in as the Helmholtz effect actually causes the air to ram it'self in instead thus increases air flow and density, finely tuned N/A gas engine can reach upwards of 115/120 VE this way. This great for tuning an engine that has a throttle plate however the game changes without a throttle plate so ram air is used to increase the amount of air supply.
Then we have boosted air which is a game changer as it always forces the air into the engine so less restrictions here is better.
A CHARGE AIR COOLER many call an INTERCOOLER (CAC/IC) is a must for best air density.
Ram air is not necessary with longer intake runners as the engine rpm increases it no longer pulls the air in as the Helmholtz effect actually causes the air to ram it'self in instead thus increases air flow and density, finely tuned N/A gas engine can reach upwards of 115/120 VE this way. This great for tuning an engine that has a throttle plate however the game changes without a throttle plate so ram air is used to increase the amount of air supply.
Then we have boosted air which is a game changer as it always forces the air into the engine so less restrictions here is better.
A CHARGE AIR COOLER many call an INTERCOOLER (CAC/IC) is a must for best air density.
Will L.
Well-Known Member
Schiker: No waste gases left in precup, unless you port the precup incorrectly. Yes once compression stroke. gets to point "X" the swirl in the precup is massive and is the key the design. Originally it wasn't called the precup, it was the swirl cup.
Remember Honda cvcc? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/CVCC
Gee, went from pre combustion chamber to electronic controlled direct injection once the injection tech go good enough, like going to duramax?
FT: exactly! That's why engine designs use the long curved runners as th intakes now. There were some intakes built with mini stationary fan blades factory - vortex increases velocity in a shorter distance than long tunnel, but long tunnel does it better. A Quality head job will do even better, but is way to labor intensive for mass production.
Boost always wins, any plumbing engineers here? There's a formula of pipe size X pressure = volume. In the same area the more pressure you put behind it the faster the medium is going to travel. Just imagine if we could double the rpm of a turbo.
On the air density- oh yeah, way important. Not just the air though. I've spent years on and off working on the end all- be all in my not so humble opinion. People work on 1-10% increases that are awesome and achieve able. My idea is an all or nothing, almost 400% gain in efficiency. No secret swirly ram air action though. I need another 150,000 worth of research to finally prove or disprove it. Been at it as $ permits for about 20 years now. Lots of engines gave their all. So yeah, gonna be a bit yet. Don't worry- if I die my kids will continue the quest. (Insert maniacal laughter here).
I have to say Drago, whenever I here super secret idea, i always get excited. Little ideas of "what if" are how we got most of our cool stuff that didn't exist a couple hundred years ago.
Back to first post, got plans for a project?
Remember Honda cvcc? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/CVCC
Gee, went from pre combustion chamber to electronic controlled direct injection once the injection tech go good enough, like going to duramax?
FT: exactly! That's why engine designs use the long curved runners as th intakes now. There were some intakes built with mini stationary fan blades factory - vortex increases velocity in a shorter distance than long tunnel, but long tunnel does it better. A Quality head job will do even better, but is way to labor intensive for mass production.
Boost always wins, any plumbing engineers here? There's a formula of pipe size X pressure = volume. In the same area the more pressure you put behind it the faster the medium is going to travel. Just imagine if we could double the rpm of a turbo.
On the air density- oh yeah, way important. Not just the air though. I've spent years on and off working on the end all- be all in my not so humble opinion. People work on 1-10% increases that are awesome and achieve able. My idea is an all or nothing, almost 400% gain in efficiency. No secret swirly ram air action though. I need another 150,000 worth of research to finally prove or disprove it. Been at it as $ permits for about 20 years now. Lots of engines gave their all.
So yeah, gonna be a bit yet. Don't worry- if I die my kids will continue the quest. (Insert maniacal laughter here).I have to say Drago, whenever I here super secret idea, i always get excited. Little ideas of "what if" are how we got most of our cool stuff that didn't exist a couple hundred years ago.
Back to first post, got plans for a project?