dieselsmoken33
New Member
I'm looking in getting a cooling up grade for my 93 6.5. Would it be better just to go with the SSDS kit or replacing the stock radiator with a 4 row monster.
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Cooling Up Grade
- Thread starter dieselsmoken33
- Start date
- Staff
- #2
There's a lot to consider with this.
First, why are you looking at an upgrade? Is your truck overheating now? Is it during everyday driving, while plowing, or while towing in high ambients? (yes, they are different issues)
If so,
- Have you pulled and properly cleaned your rad? (if you haven't pulled it, it hasn't been properly cleaned)
- have you checked your thermostat? (Yours is a single T-stat, and MUST be replaced with the proper ACDelco (no substitutes!) thermostat.
- have you ever replaced your Fan Clutch with one designed to kick in at a slightly lower temp and transfer torque (from engine to fan) better?
- have you considered replacing your stock fan with the 9-blade composite DMax fan?
- Have you considered replacing your standard water pump with an HO pump in a single T-stat application?
- Have you considered or implemented an Auxilliary Trans cooler, or installed a TCC lockup switch to use while towing?
Although SSDS swears their cooling upgrade is the answer to all problems, it is fairly often overkill for the application, and (depending on the issue) doesn't solve the problem, either.
First, why are you looking at an upgrade? Is your truck overheating now? Is it during everyday driving, while plowing, or while towing in high ambients? (yes, they are different issues)
If so,
- Have you pulled and properly cleaned your rad? (if you haven't pulled it, it hasn't been properly cleaned)
- have you checked your thermostat? (Yours is a single T-stat, and MUST be replaced with the proper ACDelco (no substitutes!) thermostat.
- have you ever replaced your Fan Clutch with one designed to kick in at a slightly lower temp and transfer torque (from engine to fan) better?
- have you considered replacing your stock fan with the 9-blade composite DMax fan?
- Have you considered replacing your standard water pump with an HO pump in a single T-stat application?
- Have you considered or implemented an Auxilliary Trans cooler, or installed a TCC lockup switch to use while towing?
Although SSDS swears their cooling upgrade is the answer to all problems, it is fairly often overkill for the application, and (depending on the issue) doesn't solve the problem, either.
- Staff
- #3
Oh, FWIW, I pulled a 9800# 5er through the Trinity Pass up by Weaverville, CA in 90+ ambients, at speed, with no overheating issues, with a single Tstat system.
Cooling is not a matter of changing one big thing and miracles happen. It's a matter of making a bunch of little things work well together.
Cooling is not a matter of changing one big thing and miracles happen. It's a matter of making a bunch of little things work well together.
OregonHorseTug
New Member
..more details?
What kind of cooling problems are you having?
I'm running the stock '96 single stat --> with the correct thermostat-- stock 60 gpm water pump and stock (replacement) radiator for my rig. I did replace my old fan and worn out clutch with a 9 wing steel fan and a Kennedy fan clutch. End result is no cooling problems pulling up 6% grades in August (90+ air temps) with 19,000# combined weight. An extremely clean radiator is your friend.
Some guys don't like the Kennedy clutch because it kicks in so early. I do like it 'cause at 19k I'm making about 8 mph up those grades and I need all the wind through the rad I can get!
What kind of rig are you running? 2x? 4x? 1500/2500/2500HD/3500? Fill in your signature with details about your truck and we can help you easier.
Mike
What kind of cooling problems are you having?
I'm running the stock '96 single stat --> with the correct thermostat-- stock 60 gpm water pump and stock (replacement) radiator for my rig. I did replace my old fan and worn out clutch with a 9 wing steel fan and a Kennedy fan clutch. End result is no cooling problems pulling up 6% grades in August (90+ air temps) with 19,000# combined weight. An extremely clean radiator is your friend.
Some guys don't like the Kennedy clutch because it kicks in so early. I do like it 'cause at 19k I'm making about 8 mph up those grades and I need all the wind through the rad I can get!
What kind of rig are you running? 2x? 4x? 1500/2500/2500HD/3500? Fill in your signature with details about your truck and we can help you easier.
Mike
dieselsmoken33
New Member
First thanks for the relpies. I don't have any heating issues yet. I just want to be ready for the summer when I head into the valley.
Thanks,
Louis
Thanks,
Louis
- Staff
- #6
Then pull your rad out. All the way out.
Set it face-down on 2 sawhorses and wash all the crap out of it with some simple green cleaner and a garden hose/sprayer (not a powerwasher). Spray foaming Coil cleaner on it, let it soak, and repeat about 3 times.
You won't believe what comes out of an old rad. Clean the other coolers well, while they're on the truck.
Change your fan clutch; put in an SD or HD clutch, preferably one tuned to do the job better than stock.
http://www.oliverdiesel.com/products/haydenfanclutch.htm
http://www.haydenauto.com/products/fan-clutches-and-fan-blades.htm
Replace your thermostat with a GENUINE ACDelco thermostat... make sure it's the right one and use NO Substitutes!!.
Put it all back together, and you should have no issues. If you pull heavy, you may wish to add the 9-blade composite fan or use the Kennedy clutch setup that OregonHorseTug references above. The guy knows what he's talking about; pulling heavy on steep grades is a whole 'nother ballgame.
Set it face-down on 2 sawhorses and wash all the crap out of it with some simple green cleaner and a garden hose/sprayer (not a powerwasher). Spray foaming Coil cleaner on it, let it soak, and repeat about 3 times.
You won't believe what comes out of an old rad. Clean the other coolers well, while they're on the truck.
Change your fan clutch; put in an SD or HD clutch, preferably one tuned to do the job better than stock.
http://www.oliverdiesel.com/products/haydenfanclutch.htm
http://www.haydenauto.com/products/fan-clutches-and-fan-blades.htm
Replace your thermostat with a GENUINE ACDelco thermostat... make sure it's the right one and use NO Substitutes!!.
Put it all back together, and you should have no issues. If you pull heavy, you may wish to add the 9-blade composite fan or use the Kennedy clutch setup that OregonHorseTug references above. The guy knows what he's talking about; pulling heavy on steep grades is a whole 'nother ballgame.
What is coil cleaner and where would you buy it? Would foaming engine cleaner work? I'm doing a cooling system upgrade on my 95 2600LD in my sig. Ive added the 97 HO water pump and plan on using the fan/clutch from a 3500hd[more blades]. I also removed the a/c condensor{didn't work anyhow]. I'm using the rad out of a 97 2500 and want it as clean as possible before installing. And yes I put a genuine Ac delco[13191] thermost in.
sshewins
Jesus Freak
X2 on ACDelco T stat. Anything else is JUNK !!!
Don't ask us how we know, we just do...
Don't ask us how we know, we just do...
- Staff
- #9
http://www.mainsupplies.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=266
http://www.keep-it-kool.com/serv_prod/coilclean_1.html
I used Dow 'Scrubbing Bubbles' shower cleaner the first time I did mine... seemed to work.
http://www.scrubbingbubbles.com/
HeathDiesel also carries the cleaner, and wrote a good blog article on the process:
Read the How-To:
http://blog.heathdiesel.com/2005/05/cooling-system-performance-in-gm-65.html
davo727
Member
My 92 project has the brass radiator- When did they go to aluminum and has anybody had trucks with each type notice a difference in cooling between the two?
saberhutch
Recruit
- Messages
- 13
- Reaction score
- 0
Great Thread...need help deciding???
I am having issues with overheating while towing even moderate loads. I have a new radiator and have cleaned the system. Even though my truck is a mostly a daily driver I need it to tow heavy loads from time to time (7,000-9,000). I am interested in either the Kennedy or Heath upgrade cooling upgrades but undecided. I am even considering the Heaths water pump,fan,clutch combo if it would help or be the overall best choice. I will also be purchasing an ECM (Heath or Wester Still undeciede) which should help my power.
Any input is greatly appreciated.
Dieselsmoken33 thanks for starting this thread.
I am having issues with overheating while towing even moderate loads. I have a new radiator and have cleaned the system. Even though my truck is a mostly a daily driver I need it to tow heavy loads from time to time (7,000-9,000). I am interested in either the Kennedy or Heath upgrade cooling upgrades but undecided. I am even considering the Heaths water pump,fan,clutch combo if it would help or be the overall best choice. I will also be purchasing an ECM (Heath or Wester Still undeciede) which should help my power.
Any input is greatly appreciated.
Dieselsmoken33 thanks for starting this thread.
packratt
Active Member
You can get the coil cleaner from HVAC supply places. IIRC I paid something like $5-10 for the gallon(smallest quantity) and you dilute somewhat for use.
I got a radiator shop to clean it this time because it was out of truck and I wanted to have it flow and pressure tested.
I got a radiator shop to clean it this time because it was out of truck and I wanted to have it flow and pressure tested.
buddy
Active Member
I dont think there is anything wrong with SSDS' kit, you dont have to install the double thermostat housing if you dont want and it still costs less, especially theyre upgraded fan and clutch, however they say that the fan clutch is designed to work with 180* stat. Is the issue you have with t-stats the brand or the right temp at 195*? Is there a thread on what non AC Delco t-stats do? Ever since I put a 10* lower tstat in my Z28 it dropped 20* or more idle temp.
NVW
Well-Known Member
The only T stat that works properly in the single T stat system is the AC Delco. As far as temp it depends on what you need, here I want heat in the winter. Leo
JMJNet
Recruit
In 97, it should have 2 T-stat and HO Water Pump already.
Sounds like all you need is the fan and clutch combo.
Also, it looks like you have SSD PMD kit, is it still on the intake? May want to move it outside the engine with your overheating problem, that will get cooked shortly. Just a warning!!!
buddy
Active Member
Hes upgrading a 1993
- Staff
- #17
Big difference between the 6.5 and your Camaro, Buddy...
These motors were designed to run best warm. Putting in a 180* Tstat does nothing to help them stay cool, as the Tstat is only responsible for base temps, not top temps, and it's actually a bit cool for oprimal driving.
SSDiesel's Fan clutch is a stock trim clutch, despite what Walt sells it as. People who have bought it report that it engages at stock temps, air temp 195, coolant temp 205+. Might as well buy a stock clutch from Autozone or Napa.
Kennedy's is very early, Heath's is simply early. Heath's has higher torque transfer, I think Kennedy's does, also, but not 100% sure.
I have Heath's, as does Turbine Doc. It does kick in earlier than stock, around 200* water temp (supposed to be 190-195* air temp), brings temp down fast, and kicks back out.
I know Kennedy's works well also, but it stays engaged a lot, costing power and fuel. For the heavy hauler, like OHT, it is well worth it. Pulling hard and slow means a cheap clutch will kick in and out, which is NOT what he wants.
These motors were designed to run best warm. Putting in a 180* Tstat does nothing to help them stay cool, as the Tstat is only responsible for base temps, not top temps, and it's actually a bit cool for oprimal driving.
SSDiesel's Fan clutch is a stock trim clutch, despite what Walt sells it as. People who have bought it report that it engages at stock temps, air temp 195, coolant temp 205+. Might as well buy a stock clutch from Autozone or Napa.
Kennedy's is very early, Heath's is simply early. Heath's has higher torque transfer, I think Kennedy's does, also, but not 100% sure.
I have Heath's, as does Turbine Doc. It does kick in earlier than stock, around 200* water temp (supposed to be 190-195* air temp), brings temp down fast, and kicks back out.
I know Kennedy's works well also, but it stays engaged a lot, costing power and fuel. For the heavy hauler, like OHT, it is well worth it. Pulling hard and slow means a cheap clutch will kick in and out, which is NOT what he wants.
Pillow
Recruit
I run the SSDiesel Duramax fan kit in the '96 and have been very pleased with it. Granted it has only engaged maybe 3-4 times in 1-2 years. I think it kicks in 200-205F.
I also run 180F Robert Shaw dual t-stats, I would recommend to stay Delco and keep the 195F stock ones.
Keep it clean and overheating is not much of an issue... It always amazes me how much junk gets clogged up in front of the radiator!
I also run 180F Robert Shaw dual t-stats, I would recommend to stay Delco and keep the 195F stock ones.
Keep it clean and overheating is not much of an issue... It always amazes me how much junk gets clogged up in front of the radiator!
buddy
Active Member
the t-stat does affect peak temp, as it becomes increasingly difficult to shed heat once youve already generated it. Air can cool the radiator or engine a lot more efficiently when the delta in temperature is greater. So if it kicks in at 180* then it will keep the temps lower. The fundamentals of any engine are the same so it is similar in the camaro, as any engine is more efficient when hot, but not as powerful. If you could make a ceramic engine it would be tons more efficient.
- Staff
- #20
The Thermostat does not 'kick-in' at 180. It opens at 180. If the engine continues to make heat faster than it can lose it, as happens when pulling uphill, the temp will still climb until the thermostatically-controlled fan clutch engages. If the engine still persists in making heat faster than it can be removed, even with the fan engaged, then you overheat.
Period.
All the 180* thermostat does is set the bbottom for your engine temperature... it closes at 180*, stopping water circulation and preventing your engine from getting any cooler. Once it's open, it is useless, which means at any temp above 180*, the thermostat is no longer part of the eqauation.
And yes, that's true for all water-cooled engines.
Period.
All the 180* thermostat does is set the bbottom for your engine temperature... it closes at 180*, stopping water circulation and preventing your engine from getting any cooler. Once it's open, it is useless, which means at any temp above 180*, the thermostat is no longer part of the eqauation.
And yes, that's true for all water-cooled engines.