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Ceramic coating FACTS for the DIY'er

Twisted Steel Performance

Twisted Steel Performance

Anything worth doing is worth overdoing.
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In this thread I will attempt to help the DIY kind of folks to understand the truth about Ceramic coatings pertaining to internal engine parts and external parts. I will try and answer questions and help with my experiences in this area. There is a fairly steep learning curve, as with any R&D project like porting heads etc, it can be costly to learn.... don't ask me how I know...

Ceramic coatings are NOT something new, they have been around for some time now, the "right coating" in the right place WILL amount to more horse power.. it's a FACT not something a company claims without backing it up. More and more engine builders are releasing proof through data that coating will release HP, dyno runs, temp data, etc are starting to be shown. Remember not every builder will just give findings freely, most will hide the good stuff and let the competition wonder what is being done... I'll admit in the porting area I don't give out secrets either, I have paid for what I've learned and then some..

I am NOT soliciting for work as I AM NOT a vendor here. There are authorized coating shops all across the country, if you want to find one close to where you live the company I will be talking about will find you a shop that is known to use the correct product's nearest you.

I will attempt to give advice for the DIY folks as most of this can be done at home with a small cost output for equipment. Most things cannot be skimped on and most things can not be substituted for anything else, ie... glass beads, sand, CAN NOT be substituted for aluminum oxide..... I will go into this later in the thread...

I will be posting links to help others understand Ceramic's better, I am not a expert in the field but have been doing it for personal projects & local engine builders for some time now, I how ever DO NOT do "powder coating" so I can't give much info in that area.

I AM NOT in anyway associated with the company I will be talking about other than purchasing the product from them. I have found over time the best product on the market and I will only use what I have used for my personal motors and found during testing what works the best in a high performance motor. Every coating manufacturer is not the same and when you are counting on a coating to do a certain thing, you better/need to know it does what it should.

There are different products for different parts of the motor, each are designed to do different things, it is very important to know what to use where.. metal type, use, location, environment, etc will be discussed in this thread..

This thread will take me some time to get into, there is a LOT of information that will be given here, how to do every aspect from start to finish. After this thread anyone that is willing to take the time to read the links I will provide and follow instructions will be able to obtain good results. I will say this is not a easy thing to learn, it is not cheap, you will make mistakes, BUT if you are willing to spend some time reading and also you understand it is going to "sound" easy, keep the learning curve in mind, make mistakes, spend some dollars, ask questions, it can be done at home...


More next time.......

Chris
 
Last edited:
Tech Line coatings is the manufacturing company I purchase from and the only product I use.

The link is their web site, it is full of information and I highly recommend browsing the site, they have loads of info on products and there uses. Tech Line gives info for the uses of different products, where to use them and how to apply them. The site has a vast amount of info, take some time and read every link on every page, there is even a partial list of customers that use there products... I would like everyone to read through the site as there is much more info there than I can ever give out here....

Home page
http://www.techlinecoatings.com

When browsing the column on the right you will find the "partal customer list" have a look at some of the users, they are impressive..

Chris
 
Got pictures of yours? They say they are worth a thousand words. I bet it sparks some questions too.
 
A basic list of equipment needed ... this equipment should be dedicated to coating and not used for anything else due to contamination...

Blasting cabinet
Air spray paint gun/touch up gun with a 1mm nozzle
Air compressor
oven - a clean home oven will work
120grit Aluminum oxide for etching
Clean dust free area for spraying


A basic idea of the process, and this is just a quick basic idea of how it works...

Parts MUST be clean and free of all oil before etching, this means if coating used parts the part MUST be "cooked" to remove and bake soaked in oil out of the part. If the part has oil in the metal during the curing process it will come out and ruin the coating. What that means is if used parts are going to be coated you must bake them at a higher temp than the curing temp to bake the oil out of the part, this MUST be done first, before etching ... A KEY here is.. DO NOT USE a petroleum base thinner like lacquer thinner, Acetone, mek, etc should be used.... petroleum base will leave residue and cause trouble...

Once good and clean comes etching, this is done using 120gt aluminum oxide media. A even etching at 35psi in the cabinet, make sure to remove any "shine" or gloss from the part during this process. Tape off any area not to be sprayed.

Chose the product to be applied, mix well, most of the products have solids that will sit on the bottom, a cheap blender works well, mix in the blender for several minutes, product will warm up some during this time and mix the solids..

Some products will be water base, some will use other liquids to thin down, it depends on the product.. check before and make sure what to use, don't guess...

Once this far the part will be cleaned, etched, rinsed and warmed up, pour the mixed product in the spray gun and spray at 30-35psi, care should be taken not to apply a heavy coat, no runs, the product bonds at the micro level, a light coverage is all that is needed.... ( this is where the learning curve comes into play )....

Let air dry, bake at the required temp, most have a cure baking time of 1hr once the part is up to temp...

That is a basic over view, mind you very basic...

more next time...

Chris
 
ak diesel driver said:
so are you looking for a certain thickness of coating? If so can you measure it before baking to verify?
Click to expand...

Yes to a thickness... no to measuring it, thickness is relative... I know it doesn't sound right...

We are only going to wind up with around .00005 -.0001 or less thickness..

When done correct tolerances won't change for the parts that have been coated...

Some coatings are designed for build up, piston skirts, back of bearings, etc, they are made to decrees clearances of certain parts..

Several of the "dry film lubricants" will get burnished after curing. This will sort of polish the coating, a micro layer is all that is needed but good coverage is also needed.. you would not be able to measure thickness, the coatings aren't like paint, thinner and lighter weight wise...

The piston top coatings are the same, some get burnished others don't due to active ingredients being at the surface.

TLTD, thermal dispersant will be a glossy finish, it needs nothing after cured, just a even coverage when applied..

Some areas of the thermal barrier products are 2 different coatings applied one after the other is cured, then there is another round of etching and a final product is applied and cured.

If any of the coatings are applied too thick, wrong psi, too much humidly, too cold or hot... they may crack during the curing/baking.. this would result in removing and starting over, never a good thing..

A good rule for me was to stop spraying when I have a consistent even color to the part, just takes getting the feel & look..

After you spend the time and product then cure it and it cracks it doesn't take long before you lighten up on the spray, again the learning curve, practice makes perfect..
 
As some remember, my last build had a lot of coatings, that was my personal test to find out if these coatings really offered the protection they claimed. Every part inside any motor can be coated, some areas are much more difficult than others are.

The TBC (thermal barrier coatings ) are what I found to be very helpful in controlling heat in our 6.5 motors.

I used TLHB in both intake & exhaust runners, this is a modified polymer that can be sprayed, brushed, flowed. This is used inside header tubes to prevent blueing of chrome and does a very good job of preventing exhaust heat from moving into the head..

I found the coating of the runners to be the more difficult process, the etching & spraying was time consuming but well worth the effort. That motor would NOT run hot, never saw temp spikes when towing over 20K in the heat of summer, even with a Unique Diesel injection pump maxed out the cooling system never showed any signs of over heating, I give all the credit to the TLHB coating in the runners.. this coating will be a slick finish, it is thicker/different, cures to a hard finish, it WILL improve flow in the heads as well as being a "heat stop"...

Chris
 
Tech Line does sell to the public and help is just a phone call away, very good folks to work with..

They have "shop only" products that they require a business license & tax number to purchase, then they have products anyone can purchase, Last I talked with them they were getting ready to offer DIY packages for the home folks, something to think about.

I would suggest if thinking about giving this a try, don't skimp and go with cheap equipment but don't get high dollar stuff either, think about the size of the parts you will be attempting to coat, the etching & curing part will require some thought as to size of equipment needed.. I use a lesser costing spray gun, with me, over time the ceramic becomes a little harder to clean up, a cheap blender also, they can be hard to keep clean, etching media gets replaced ever so often to prevent contamination of parts... remember NEVER blast dirty parts with the same media you plan to use for good parts... and think about your air supply, you will want a good filter on the line, moisture, oil and such passing through the air you are using is a bad thing...

Get several buckets of mek, acetone, etc you will use a good bit of it..

Get some cotton gloves and wear them, finger prints will leave oil on parts and cause you grief..

Chris
 
Everything I am attempting to explain here can be found on Tech Line's web site, and they do a much better job of getting the correct information out than I do here.

All I am attempting to do is educate on things that will help the average person in a area many don't know about.

Many of us are looking to expand and think outside the box with these motors, while everyone won't go as far as others everyone can learn new ways to improve.

When thinking about coatings, think about the entire package, cooling is one area we need as much help as we can get. Everything from radiators, AC condensers, turbo's, break rotors, etc will benefit from the TLTD thermal dispersant, test have shown a 33% more cooling over plain aluminum uncoated CAC's...

Every little bit helps..

Chris
 
Burning oil said:
Got pictures of yours? They say they are worth a thousand words. I bet it sparks some questions too.
Click to expand...

Leroy, I had all the pics here at one time, after the site updated they were gone. Also, I crashed a pc last year so I lost most of what I had.. the other diesel site has ALL the pics but I'm not going to attempt to move them anytime soon, too much trouble. I do have some on my FB page, I really don't take many pics.. if I were promoting my little company I might do more but I'm not.... seems to get lots of inquires but not much else so I even let my web site go....

Chris
 
Some of my questions might be better suited to the company directly, but they might go with the legal answer vs what you might have played with or heard of some people trying.

Clearancing camshaft bearing fitment is always an expensive process in a machine shop. Getting really tight clearance for the horrible clearance design of the 6.5 helped a lot in my hotrodded 6.5s.

I know some of the coatings can have mutiple layers applied like the ceramic that would be used on exhaust manifolds, pipes,etc.
Also I know the dry lube (to help with less friction) sprayed on main and rod bearings goes on a very thin layer to keep clearances as close to the same as possible.

Can multiple layers be added to decrease gap? In otherwords, do a layer of the thicker ceramic coat on camshaft and camshaft bearings to increase dimensions, then coat the final layer with the drylube?
 
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