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Anyone use an exhaust brake on a 6.5?

G

great white

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Canada's Ocean Playground
I've recently bought a trailer (29 feet overall) and was wondering if anyone uses (or if one is even available) for my 98 6.5.

It's very mountanous here and I wouldn't mind an extra bit of speed control on the downhills to ease off on the brake system.....
 
BD makes an exhaust brake for the 6.5 with either a 3 or 4" exhaust. They are listed on usdieselparts.com for about $1040. Dont know if any vendors here can get them...if so mods feel free to edit.

I had seriously considered one for my 96' with the 5spd tranny, but I kind of gave up the idea due to lack of information regarding the use of a brake on these engines. I had some concerns with the extra back pressure forcing past the rings or just adding more stress to an already stressed engine block. I would like to hear from anyone who actually has one on their truck and how long it has been there......
 
for the buy in price of that system,, you could buy some great rotors, and pads, 6-7 times!! LOL Like I tell my fellow bus drivers,, Down shifting is your friend.
 
Acesneights1 said:
They beat the sh$t out of the engine on any diesel. Brakes are cheap.
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I'm more concerned about "brake fade" and glazing on this type of road:

BC-5elevations.jpg


That's the TransCanada stomping ground this combo will be roaming. If you look close, there's some pretty serious grades up/down. I've driven this several times in nothing more than a car with two people (with large performance brakes) and have experienced brake fade just trying to regulate the down hill speed. I don't know how the semi's do it except that they all seem to go past with the jake brake screaming for what seems 20 miles at a time. By the time you reach the bottom you'de swear the gas attendant at the next stop should be speaking chinese....(well, it is BC, they just might be speaking chinese anyways!)

Brakes are cheap but sceaming your truck off a shear cliff or launching it off an over run gets pretty expensive fast, not to mention life threatening. Hense, exhaust brake to allow backing off on the service brakes a bit so they aren't hot and fadded when really needed for emergencies.

Pruittx2 said:
for the buy in price of that system,, you could buy some great rotors, and pads, 6-7 times!! LOL
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True, very true. BUt it's hard to change brakes when you halfway down rogers pass, doing 80 kph and can't get it slowed cause it's hot and getting worse. I suppose the 10-ish foot high TT behind would also aid with a bit of "aerodynamic braking"...:hihi:

Pruittx2 said:
Like I tell my fellow bus drivers,, Down shifting is your friend.
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Yup, good point. I was just wondering if an exhaust brake might be a reasonable addition given my "terrain". I'm also looking in to TTC lockup control to see if it will help with the up/down fights....

Guess I should have posted the road elevation vs mileage chart in the first post....
 
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I've bounced back and forth of the idea of an exhaust brake. Pac-brake has one and so does BD diesel like above stated. Problem is that it really does beat up the engine. Especially our old 6.5's. We can barely keep our crankshafts in one piece just doing normal driving, then you add the additional strains of an EB on it and your honestly asking for trouble. It doesn't say in your sig as to what trans you have. If you have a manual then things will be a little easier, but you can still keep the trans from up shifting on the auto as well using the "3 2 1" selections. Take your time the first couple times on the hills. Take it nice and slow and use the engine's braking effect to your advantage. Play around with different speeds and starting gears. It just may not be worth hooking up an EB on a 6.5. Especially one that has as many miles ans yours does.
 
BigBlueChevy said:
I've bounced back and forth of the idea of an exhaust brake. Pac-brake has one and so does BD diesel like above stated. Problem is that it really does beat up the engine. Especially our old 6.5's. We can barely keep our crankshafts in one piece just doing normal driving, then you add the additional strains of an EB on it and your honestly asking for trouble. It doesn't say in your sig as to what trans you have. If you have a manual then things will be a little easier, but you can still keep the trans from up shifting on the auto as well using the "3 2 1" selections. Take your time the first couple times on the hills. Take it nice and slow and use the engine's braking effect to your advantage. Play around with different speeds and starting gears. It just may not be worth hooking up an EB on a 6.5. Especially one that has as many miles ans yours does.
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4l80e.

Good comments.

Thanks.
 
Engine braking is your friend. With the auto, start at the top of said hill in "1". If you feel safe, pop it into "2" and see how she feels. I've had people tell me engine braking doesn't harm anything as its no different than accelerating, I've also heard some who say engine braking causes major engine and transmission damage. We have an International S1900 at work with a DT466/ MT6...something Allison auto. I engine brake all the time going down hills and have never ONCE had even the slightest issue. Thats anywhere from empty at 10,086lbs to loaded down with a full trailer and 30,000 GVW. I think the whole damage thing is horse crap.
 
Smart driving is the key. Take it from someone who drove a Snad Trailer on LI NY for many years. Try rolling down the LIE with 60 ton on your back at 75 mph.
 
I've driven those roads, on a Goldwing, in my 94 with a 5er, in a B-Train, and with my motorhome... you need to brake, but you also can't go over the top and go down the other side in first, either. You'll get your arse run over by said semi.

The problem with the 4l80e is that it freewheels in OD and D unless you can lock it up. Brake fade is a big issue for electric trailer brakes; the drums don't have to expand very much before they lose effectiveness.

BJ, look into a BD AutoLoc or BD TorqueLoc ... with my 94 I did the TCC mod, you can't do that (well, you can, but it'll throw codes and it won't work so good). Engine braking is the best move - I haven't seen a decent exhaust brake on a 6.5 yet.
 
Problem is with OBD-II & 4L80E is with the PWM of the TCC you can't get it locked up, that said the latest heath tune I'm running now has some TCC lock programmed into it, it auto locks the TCC and will stay locked until < 45 mph or when the brake is applied, neat feature i've yet to tow with it, takes a little getting used to however such as when getting off the highway and as you slow if you are above 45 the as soon as you release the brake the TCC re-locks so you have some engine braking going on.

SSBC twin piston calipers and slotted rotors up front performance pads all way around all 4 corners helped me a bunch BJ, remember I on occasion haul the back hoe on the g/n and that is a 18K# load when I pull that; I eventually added a rear disc conversion as well just so i'll have max stopping power if the trailer brakes ever give it up.
 
JiFaire said:
I've driven those roads, on a Goldwing, in my 94 with a 5er, in a B-Train, and with my motorhome... you need to brake, but you also can't go over the top and go down the other side in first, either. You'll get your arse run over by said semi.

The problem with the 4l80e is that it freewheels in OD and D unless you can lock it up. Brake fade is a big issue for electric trailer brakes; the drums don't have to expand very much before they lose effectiveness.

BJ, look into a BD AutoLoc or BD TorqueLoc ... with my 94 I did the TCC mod, you can't do that (well, you can, but it'll throw codes and it won't work so good). Engine braking is the best move - I haven't seen a decent exhaust brake on a 6.5 yet.
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Thanks J, nice to have comments from someone whose driven the road.

I'll read up on what you suggested.

TD: thank you also. That's some good info that will probably lead me into the transmission tables once I start tuning the old girl. Kind of had it in my mind to dig around and see if the 6.5 trucks also used torque management. By your statement, it seems they do.

MAybe I'll have to flash one PCM with my regular driver tune and have the second one flashed for towing. Maybe I should investigate the possibilities of a couple switchable tunes for the truck. Only problem is, I'm not sure I can arrange that with the software available for these trucks. And I defineatly don't think I have the resources (time, money or motivation) for that kind of R&D.

Maybe I'll just pop the thou or so and get the tuning stuff instead of banging around writting the interface. Time is pretty limited these days and I still have some (very little actually!) room left on the VISA...
 
I agree to help with engine braking:
"look into a BD AutoLoc or BD TorqueLoc ... "

Then put rear disc brakes on the truck. No, really! Swap the entire rear end for the modern stopping power (rear) disc brakes offer.

Then look at an exhaust brake if you still need it. Turbo seals and general high pressure on the exhaust blowing seals, doughnuts, etc. out does not appeal to me along with the cost.

Also tow with the trailer brakes set fairly high. Then stab and get off the brakes - do not drag them forever. Get on them and then give them time to cool before punching them again.
 
The BD locs & others when I looked at them were not working well with the OBD-II stuff, that has been a few years ago so maybe they have improved upon them since then, I don't think they will add anything more than what I currently have on mine now.

IIRC there are now some aftermarket disc brakes for trailers that are supposed to help as well, I swear by my Prodigy brake control, I like being able to set & test before hitting the road the progressive braking stages it allows for, minimum to max weighted trailers
 
Turbine Doc said:
The BD locs & others when I looked at them were not working well with the OBD-II stuff, that has been a few years ago so maybe they have improved upon them since then, I don't think they will add anything more than what I currently have on mine now.

IIRC there are now some aftermarket disc brakes for trailers that are supposed to help as well, I swear by my Prodigy brake control, I like being able to set & test before hitting the road the progressive braking stages it allows for, minimum to max weighted trailers
Click to expand...

I'm pretty close to pulling the trigger on tunercats II and Westers VDF, only prolem is swallowing the price. I'll be looking into the trans tables to se what I can tweak, lockup will most likely be one.

Good news on the prodigy Tim, I bought a tekonsha P3. The one model they sell that's above the Prodigy. Most likely the same tech, just with a "hootchie gootchie" LCD screen....
 
I recently experienced heaths lock up programming on Tims truck and liked the feel of it. Before exhausts brakes I'd definitely suggest you do all you can to improve your stock brakes just installing powerslot rotors and Hawk pads up front makes a huge difference

For what it is worth I am using Hensley Tru-Control and like it, I have never used the Prodigy so cannot compare though.
What I can say however is they give excellent customer service, when installing it I had a moment and incorrectly wired it up causing it to fry my only defence being that the wire colours power wise they choose to use do not necessarily make sense and the instructions say that miswiring will cause no harm. Anyways I was upfront about my senile moment and they replaced it immediately for cost of shipping only on the provision that I return the old unit.

Cheers
Nobby
 
I have a Reese controller in mine. I love it. One knob, simple to use. works way better than the Tekonshas I have had in the past.
 
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