Anyone have experience with Air Dog A45PBC087 Lift Pump on 1996 6.5 TD Suburban?

[turbopower6]

Hi All,

Thinking about replacing the half assed factory installed lift pump with this Air Dog unit to solve factory poor design fueling issues once and for all. I am also adding the new thicker design FSD to my remote mounted cooler which currently has an oem style PMD mounted to it with the factory resistor in it.
From what I hear this beefier unit "fixes" the PMD problems. We will see!:thumbsup:

Hoping to do all the grounds over and add another ground from the block to the chassis as an upgrade. Just need some warmer weather. Cold weather = P-R-O-B-L-E-M-S.....!:mad2:

I was hopig someone on the site has installed the Air Dog lift pump and may have some pictures and/or feed back on how the plumbed it all up.

Thanks folks!!

Make it a great day.
Best,
Ted

 

[JMJNet]

Hi All,

Thinking about replacing the half assed factory installed lift pump with this Air Dog unit to solve factory poor design fueling issues once and for all. I am also adding the new thicker design FSD to my remote mounted cooler which currently has an oem style PMD mounted to it with the factory resistor in it.
From what I hear this beefier unit "fixes" the PMD problems. We will see!:thumbsup:

Keep that stock PMD until it gives up on you. The old one is actually not that bad if you put it outside the hood. Putting it outside the hood is the action that fix the problem. Thickness may be good but it is still to be proven with the new ones that are giving up even when they are new.

 

[Acesneights1]

The new thick ones, the Dtechs are not much better than the Standynes. In fact I think they are worse. I am running an Airdog Raptor on my CUCV. I love it. I wouldn't spend the money on the full blown airdog w/filtration. even the Raptor for the most part is overkill for these but it's a good LP. Search a user named Great white. I posted some comments on installing one there as well as my own thread in the 6.2 section.

 

[great white]

Not the "all in one" air dog unit, but here's my Raptor (both made by Pureflow) install:

http://www.thetruckstop.us/forum/showthread.php?26809-Push-lok-hose-and-Raptor-lift-pump

The Raptor 100 probably is overkill on a 6.5. The Airdog is definately overkill, but mainly from the filtration side of the house.

Too much pressure can cause "issues" in a 6.5 IP (mostly a sealing issue) and I'm not sure if the new Airdogs even have an adjustable pressure reg anymore. I seem to recall reading new Airdog units are factory preset pressures by application, but I could be wrong there.

Just for reference on the "preset factory pressure by application" thing, my Raptor was supposed to be preset at 10 PSI but was 18psi when I measured it and I had to adjust it down. The pressure regulator on my Raptor is pretty much as low as it will go just to get the 9psi I'm running.

I went with the Raptor for better fuel pressure stability and longevity on the pump but a walbro is probably just as good on the ol' 6.5 and a more affordable price. I had the money, so I spent it.

My Raptor 100 holds rock solid at 8-9 PSI even on wide open runs, probably because it has so much capacity in reserve considering my low power/pressure setting. GPH is just never going to be an issue. It really is a great lift pump.

I went with a seperate prefilter so I could use commonly available Racor filters. It would really suck to wax up a filter in winter and have to wait for a replacement unit to be shipped from Pureflow. Not sure if you can get readily available (IE: locally) fiters for the Airdog unit. You probably can, I've never really looked too far into it. It would be something I'd check out if I was going to buy the Airdog.

The Airdog is also a couple hundred more than what I paid for my 6.5 Raptor kit. My Raptor kit (pump, hose fitting and wiring) was 300 bucks shipped (or was it 400?? can't remember now), Airdogs can run about $550 and up....

But hey, it's your dime. Spend it where it you feel it's best.

Just an FYI, most guys that have installed a prefilter before the factory lift pump (Turbinedoc comes to mind) report that thier lift pump failures essentially stop.

I would say a prefilter is an essential item on most any diesel, even more so on a 6.5.

Just MHO....

 

[buddy]

The Walbro I have puts out 10psi and I wish it were more. They deadhead at the stock filter, and to the IP is actually like 30% less on a clean filter. So pulling through a prefilter and pushing through the stock filter I would try a 12-14psi pump, but not much more. Having a regulator is good. For prefilters I would use 30 micron so it doesnt have to be too big to have high flow.

 

[turbopower6]

PSI Issue at IP

Hi Great White,

Did you measure your PSI at the filter manager before fuel went to the IP? I am thinking you lose PSI throug the factory filter (~30%) with a clean newly installed filter.

Great point about the seals as I am not looking for an IP blow out.

I am thinking about running the fuel line up under the hood and mount an adjustable pressure regulator to get +/- 10-13 psi BEFORE the filter manager. This should give me good solid fuel pressure and flow just before the IP to properly fuel the motor. It is bone stock and I am not looking to hunt for more horsepower by up fueling the vehicle. Stock is all I need with the wa we use the vehicle.

The Air Dog, while on the high side ($499) does have the capability of removing the entrapped air in the fuel. They elaboarte on that piece with some SAE data. I was thinking Racor/Parker fuel separator installed pre lift pump then install the better fuel lift pump may be the deal. Thoughts anyone?

 

[great white]

Do you mean a racor before an Airdog unit?

That would probably be way past overkill....

I wouldn't say "blow out", but more of a seal leak allowing diesel fuel where you don't want it.

If you buy a raptor (or if the airdog is adjustable) a second regulator under the hood is really just going to be another restriction in the fuel line that you don't really need.

Removing "entrained air" in the fuel system is more of a "makes you feel good" thing in a 6.5 , IMHO.

It couldn't hurt though. If you have the money to spend and really want "the 'dog", then I say go for it! Just make sure you go in with your eyes open and do the research first....

But, since you say you're staying "stock" except for a lift pump, you may be better off with a walbro unit and buying a second one for a spare (or a rebuild kit and chucking it in the dash).

Finish it off with a decent prefilter and call it a day for a couple hundred bucks.

That's probably the way I would go if I was keeping the truck mostly stock and just wanted an upgraded lift pump and better filtration. Cost effective too.

My fuel system was built with an eye towards the future where there may eventually be a LB7 in the truck, so I would say it's pretty much into the "overkill" category on my mostly stock 6.5 TD.

Your truck, your money, your call.

 

[buddy]

The Stanadyne/GM tech data on the DS4 recommend a supply of 8-9psi for it to operate nominally, minimum of 5psi. GM messed up by providing less pressure to the IP inlet at idle than their own tech data recommended. And under load it only got worse. The 5 micron stock filter is quite a restriction along with the turns and climb the fuel has to do in the filter manager. I have a gauge right after the LP, and can check it at the drain and even then there is a slight difference and it is prefilter, and I T'd into the line right at the IP and it was even lower.

I think GW's pressure gauge is on the inlet. Checking pressure here, like mine after the LP, will not show degredation in filter flow from saturation/plugging, and what the IP has at its inlet.

You can also check inside your fuel filter manager to see if it has a corscrew insert inside the central shaft. The fuel heater slides up inside the corscrew and its even more of a restriction, but the corkscrew is removable, slides right out.

 

[turbopower6]

Hi Great White,

Excellent picture and nice work. We must be from a similar tree as they say. My idea, (these are usually way over engineered) was to go with the racor filter on the vacum side... plumbed behind the lift pump.

The more I thought about it it seemed that the issue would be consistent fuel pressure and flow under all conditions ( heavier demand on the electrical system, aging connections.. higher resistance etc) With that said I began thinking about upgrading the whole deal. You indicated you could dial the PSI back. This is the approach I am thinking about. The Racor filters are more likely to be available locally than the Air Dog. They told me these only need to be repalced @20,000 /once per year and the water seperator drained at the same interval. This of course all depends on the fuel quality available which in my area is generally decent.

Did you leave the fuel pressure gauge on your set up when it was installed back in the truck?

 

[great white]

Hi Great White,

Excellent picture and nice work.

Thank you. I try my best.



If you check the thread I liked to earlier, there's more pics there. Like I said, my install is a bit of overkil for a 6.5 TD. It will most likely never be able to use the GPH the Raptor can generate or what the 1/2" ID line I used can deliver. As mentioned, I have my eyes set on things happening "down the road" for the truck......

We must be from a similar tree as they say. My idea, (these are usually way over engineered) was to go with the racor filter on the vacum side... plumbed behind the lift pump.

Yup, where it should be. It will protect your whole fuel system as well as your new pump. Unless you get the Airdog that is (won't be needed).

The more I thought about it it seemed that the issue would be consistent fuel pressure and flow under all conditions ( heavier demand on the electrical system, aging connections.. higher resistance etc) With that said I began thinking about upgrading the whole deal. You indicated you could dial the PSI back.

Yup. The Raptor has an adjustable regulator built right into the unit. Wrench and a screwdriver and you're off and adjusting. If you install a raptor (or Airdog), you can mostly bypass the factory wiring as it needs to be powered directly from the battery. Then, all the factory wiring runs is a relay to trigger the pump.

A walbro is a "roll you own" kind of deal, not in kit form that is. Not too big of a deal if you're handy with even basic wiring tasks.

This is the approach I am thinking about. The Racor filters are more likely to be available locally than the Air Dog.

Probably.

They told me these only need to be repalced @20,000 /once per year and the water seperator drained at the same interval. This of course all depends on the fuel quality available which in my area is generally decent.

Well, I see you're in PA.

A gelled filter means you need to replace it. One bad cold snap, and...well, you get the idea.

I'd rather be able to skip down to the local jobbers and get a filter ordered in by the end of the day instead of a week later.

I think I read somewhere that the AIrdog filters have a fleetguard replacement, but don't quote me on that. Even so, you'd probably loose the "hotchie gootchie" air seperation bit without the airdog specific filters (where it happens, as is my understanding).

Plus, you're stuck with paying AirDog's prices. With a more generic Racor, you can buy filters on sale, discount, bulk lots, etc....

And you're right, draining water is really dependant on the quality of the fuel you pump into the tank. You may never get water, you may get a bad load and have to drain it the next day. That's why I have a water sensor in my pre-filter and the clear bowl. My sensor may never light up, it may light up tomorrow. I installed it for just some peace of mind. Well, that, and there was a mounting hole in the clear bowl for a WIF sensor, so why not?



Water in the fuel is a total crap shoot, although, I haven't really heard of anyone having significant water problems with retailed fuel...still, it could happen I guess....

Did you leave the fuel pressure gauge on your set up when it was installed back in the truck?

The engine mounted guage is to measure lift pump output. It would have been nice to have aliquid filled gauge to put on there, but this is one of the couple dozen assorted guages I had sitting on the shelf, so why not use it?



The eventual plan is a digital gauge in the cab instead of the under hood one for real time monitoring of LP output, and a vacuum guage on the prefilter to measure filter "dirtiness" as it accumulates.

 

[Turbine Doc]

I'm running with a permanent installed gage into the cab at outlet of engine bay mounted FFM which is basically the feed pressure the IP is seeing, also have a vac switch on it, and also vac switch at outlet of the frame mounted lift pump pre filter, when the filters get very dirty constant on indication from the LEDs in series with the switches and lift/supply pressure seen at the IP drops. If partially blocked filters under hard acceleration the LEDs flicker indicating time is near for filter changes.

Since installing I've had no loss of flow from bad pump I run 99% of time with a OEM style lift and maintain 8 psi most of the time except when pulling running hard or heavy loads I drop to 3-4 psi or even 0 psi momentarily, when rolling that way I activate the Walbro lift I run in parallel with the OEM pump.

When sizing the Racor primary filter I chose the 60 gph 10 micron filter as it had less flow restriction over the 45 gph filter, plus a little larger filter element that would last longer between changes, current Racor element has been on 2.5 years and 40k miles ? I think, and I can't remember when the last engine bay filter was changed but it's been on longer than my primary element has been on.

 

[Turbine Doc]

Hey TP6 I just noticed you are new to this here forum Welcome to the party :welcome2:artay: you'll find our crew here :85: is a happy bunch for most part; & more collective 6.5 experience here than anywhere else on web you want 6.5 info you've come to the rite spot. Don't have a 6.5 or own a gasser probably a feller or two here that has got that covered as well.

Here is a little something you mite wanna read I did the original concept back in 2005 others have done similar even have a vendor Walking J designs that sells fittings for what I've coined as a Feed The Beast Mod http://www.thetruckstop.us/forum/showthread.php?572-Feed-The-Beast-Part-I-amp-Part-II

 

[Acesneights1]

It has also be theorized that low factory fuel pressure has contributed to the demise of PMDs by not providing enough cooling via fuel flow as GM intended. I used a Raptor because I ended up with a spare one for 200$. Can't beat that. BTW I was able to crank mine down to 7 psi. More than enough for a 6.2. DB2's don't like excessive FP. Can cause issues with the cold advance from what I am told. I have had no problems running one on my CUCV and did I mention it sounds really cool ??
:rof:
On a side note, GW said Pureflow is no longer offering a lifetime warranty. I have not looked into that personally but if that is the case it would DEFINITELY deter me from purchasing one.
Could always look at a Fass...That is what Bill Heath runs on the Bonneville. There is a long thread I did somewhere on Raptor here. Pepp even uploaded the install PDF's. I can't seem to find it though.
My penance for being a post whore....:rof:

 

[Turbine Doc]

To second that theory one has to wonder if that is not the case; why in OBD-IIs that GM provided 2 power paths for the lift and you have to lose both before the lift loses power, sort of a way to insure electrically the lift can remain energized to provide reqd fuel to IP in sufficient quantity for PMD to IP heat xfer.

 

[Monarkman]

Pepp even uploaded the install PDF's. I can't seem to find it though.
My penance for being a post whore....:rof:

http://www.thetruckstop.us/forum/sh...ro-where-to-buy/page4&highlight=raptor+airdog

Post #51

 

[Matt Bachand]

If you're running 9PSI before the FFM I'd bet your at 6-7 or so at the IP.

I have read in the past that these IP's are safe up to 14psi AT THE IP INLET. I believe it was Diesel Pro who is a reputable forum member and rebuilder who offered up this safe PSI information. Take it for what you paid for it.

I run 2 walbros. One before the RACOR and one after. I can switch the pre-racor on and off separately with a toggle. My truck runs better, audibly, and seat of the pants wise when PSI is 5-6 while heavy acc vs 2-3.

You can really get more life out of a 10 micron prefilter with that first walbro Pushing.

The unfiltered walbro has a screen in it.

I only did like this as I ended up with a second Walbro, so I experimented with great success.

Raptor/Airdog way better, as the Walbros just get weak. My fuel pressure is all over the place, not rock solid by any means. Still plentiful, but at times I wish I had more, or my filters just clogged quickly which is possible.