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Almost Constant DTC 36

Badaxe

Badaxe

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Location
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Thank goodness for clearing codes, my head almost exploded last night when I pulled codes 14, 29, 31, 35, 36, 42, 49, 57, 62, 84, and 99.:mad2: After letting it sit for a few hours with no batteries and finally getting it fired up I'm down to just a DTC36. It continues to be rough starting even with the new LP, OPS, and OPS relay. The code is present at idle and light driving, but the second I'm accelerating or cruising at highway speeds it goes away, slow down and it's back.

In the next week or two I'll be hunting down injectors(missed the rockauto deal) and compiling a list for FTB and turbo drain parts. Budget is seriously tight, emissions for license plates are due, need these parts, want better parts, etc. I'm almost positive the hard starting is due to air getting in somewhere and haven't done LP test yet. Three young one and grandkids don't leave me much time. Sorry lots of stuff going on right now not sure if this was a rant or looking for help with a shopping list. Suggestions welcome I've got to keep this thing on the road.
 
Careful diagnostics. Not parts. Do the cheap stuff first.

Start with fuel ... are you running any additive? If not, toss in a quart of ND SAE30 motor oil. The cheapest stuff you can find. Put one in every tank. If your IP is wearing, this will extend it for a while; the new ULSD fuel fdoesn't have the lubrication for your pump, and the old ones don't like it that much.

Do the LP test. Making your IP try to suck up the fuel is guaranteed to be hard on things, and if you have a slight air leak, will really make it noticeable. If your LP can keep ahead of the IP demands, air won't get in.

Have you changed out the RF filter in the PMD harness yet?

Go through the checklist in my signature; there are a lot of good things to do there, for basic maintenance. Fill out what you can, then post it. We'll see what we can think up for ya to try.
 
Demographics: tell us about your truck and your ambient conditions:

- Year: ___1994___
- Truck model and class (ie: c2500) ____K2500 Sub_____
- Automatic or Standard _____Auto_____
- Mileage: (indicate miles or km) ____148K_____
- Replaced parts and mods (IP, PMD, chip/PCM, TM, injectors etc) _____PMD, LP, OPS, GPs, ______
- Model: ‘S’ or ‘F’ engine, NA or Turbo, EGR? _______Stock GM4, _______
- Ambient outside temp: (indicate *C or *F) _____today in 30s*F_____
- What fuel are you using? (#1 Diesel, #2 Diesel, Bio, VO, WVO, etc) ____#2_____
- What fuel additives are you using? _____30wt or 2 cycle and powerservice winter blend every tank______
- Where are you located? ______Denver_______

General maintenance: inspect and evaluate the condition of each. When were they last changed?
- Air filter ____K&N needs cleaning_____
- Fuel filter ____2K miles_____
- CDR Valve? ____cleaned 10K ago_____
- Coolant – last flushed/replaced at _____nope________
- Oil – synthetic/regular, changed at _____regular less than 1K______
- Batteries – state of charge, (matched set) replaced at _____hold at 12-14v________
- Battery cables and grounds (removed, cleaned and tightened): ______today________
- Glow Plugs - how many miles on them? _________ What type? _____________
- Injectors - last changed at _______original to my knowledge________


History: (Describe how the problem first appeared.)
- Has this problem ever happened before? __________last year PMD issues now on bumper_____________
- Describe any related factors that might be part of the problem. ______LP/OPS died________
- Have you checked for DTC (Diagnostic Trouble Codes)? (Y.N) __Y__ And? ___36_____


Diagnostics:

1] Starting:
1a] Does the engine start? ____Yes, reluctantly_____
1g] Do you see smoke from the exhaust while cranking? What color? ___white mostly to grey black_____

3] PMD / IP Issues
3a] Location of PMD (on pump, on intake, remote mounted) _____bumper______

4] Stalling Issues
4f] Does cruise control quit working when engine throws code? _____yes______

5] Running Issues
5d] Excessive white smoke from exhaust on cold start? ___yes______
5e] Excessive black smoke from exhaust under hard acceleration? ____little to no smoke noticeable______

6] Performance Issues
6a] Do you have gauges (boost, EGT) ? _____boost, EGT______
6b] Maximum boost under load? ______10-12 drops to 7 quickly______
6c] Have you added a performance PCM (reflash) or Chip? _______not yet_______
6d] Have you changed exhaust / downpipe / crossover? _______4" back_________
6e] Wastegate – mechanical or vacuum (OEM)? ______stock________

7] Temperature-related Issues:
7a] Single or dual thermostats? _____single_______
7b] Have you replaced them lately? Manufacturer of replacements? ____nope_____
7c] Have you pulled and cleaned Radiator and coolers lately? _____nope_______
7d] Have you replaced the fan clutch? Manufacturer of replacement? ___nope_____
7e] (winter) Have you tested your antifreeze? Good to what temp? _____nope_____
7f] (winter) Are you using a winter grille cover? _____nope______
 
1] Start truck, open brass T-valve to check fuel flow. (put the hose into a bottle). If engine dies or no fuel comes out, LP needs closer examination.

2] See if you can find somebody nearby that has a known good pmd to try... how old is yours? Who did you get it from?

3] Have you changed your IP RF Filter yet? It's mounted inline in the other set of wires coming off your IP. You can also just unplug both ends, remove the RF filter, and plug the 2 ends together to bypass.
 
Pop the hood and make the young ones learn how to work on diesels with you. Otherwise let them walk - I bet the first time they walk they will have a new interest in helping you keep it running!

Seriously make the time. And they can be useful looking things up on the net as well. Like what are all the codes meaning? Do you have a 5v short that is taking several things out at once for example. Grounds will do the same as well as bad positive cables and ignition switches.

Diagnose it before throwing parts at it - with the poor quality of parts you need to know when you get a bad part that didn't fix the problem vs. bad guess.
 
DTC 36 = Injection pulse width error.

Possible causes:

1. Voltage drop

Possible solutions -

1a. Check grounds, cables for corrosion. Voltage drop causes PMD error (and lots of other weird faults). Electronic components are very susceptible to voltage drop (outside of designed tolerances) and the DS4 system is no different.

1b. Test Alternator output. This seems a VERY probable cause from you description of the error code at idle, but gone once at highway speed and acceleration when the alternator is on speed and making more volts/amps.

1c. Load test batteries, Most shops will do this for free.

2. PMD failing

Solution-

2a. Replace. Swap it out with another to check. New replacement to test is expensive, I'd buy a used one off ebay first if going this way. Can be had for around 30-40 bucks. You are risking getting a PMD with a fault as well, but it's worth the risk to me. You decide if it's worth it to you.

3. IP fuel solenoid valve worn or sticking

Possible solutions-

3a. Replace IP. That's a big pill to swallow. Expensive! Unfortunately, if the fuel solenoid is packing it in, replacing the IP is the only option. I've never attempted (or heard of anyone) replacing just the solenoid so don't know if it's possible (or if you can even buy one separately from the IP)

3b. Chuck some cleaner/lubricant additive in there. I usually don't recommend "snake oil" fuel cleaners (useless crap usually), but you're strapped for cash so it's worth a try. Make sure you get something specifically for diesel. AVOID anything that lists an alcohol in the contents. Stanadyne additive is a safe bet but a bit more expensive. Stanadyne addative is also NOT snake oil. it's the real deal. I'd use it myself, but can't get it where I currently live.

*personal opinion time* I don't use 30W oil or 2 stroke anymore at all. Find and use a good lubricity additive that's intended for the purpose. I'd share why I think this way, but the board is often......"opinionated"....... on differing view on additives so I'll just say I've got good reason not to use 30W/2stroke anymore.

Hopefully, you find grounds or maybe a bad alternator at worst. Everything else gets a bit expensive.

Good luck.
 
While I'm waiting for parts to show up and gathering stuff, I've got to ask. People keep pointing at the OS as the code problem, so do I drop "rebuilt"(been sitting on a shelf) IP or use it for parts and swap the OS?
 
Until all the other suggestions have been eliminated I wouldn't get a new IP.

I have a pmd that works but will give a code 36 that can't be erased.

Also if you have the OS filter you might try and remove it and plug the wiring harness direct to the OS.
 
OS filter went away some time ago.(and helped) How hard is IP to change with just upper intake off?(so I can hold off) I'm planning on pulling full intake to do injectors, FTB, and FFM o-rings.
 
The more I read on IP replacement the better I feel about it. Still need to get a OBD1-to-USB cable so I can do scans. Gonna do my emissions tomorrow, it shouldn't fail with just the 36 popping up.
 
Checked and double checked, Colorado law doesn't place the "won't even look at it if there is a SES light" that is on gassers on diesels.
 
Passed emissions with flying anti-freeze three weeks ago! lol Less than one minute into the test, just after explaining to my son all the different things that were going on, he yelled and pointed to a deluge of green fluid pouring from under the hood. The truck was shut down immediately and upon popping the hood we found that the upper radiator hose had come off. Yep all of my green stuff all over the floor heading toward the dyno. Long story short....spill soaked up, hose reattached with real hose clamp, and fluids topped off. Tech said "I know the truck, the light went off under throttle, so it passes. Don't worry about the mess, it's the second time in 35+ years and I've got guys to clean up."

Last Saturday it sprung a major fuel leak under the FFM so replacing lines, doing FTB, new injectors, and thinking IP. I remember reading about someone having issues with IP and engine not turning to access bolts and advice given to turn w/GPs out. Based on this theory should I do IP with injectors out? And are there problems with putting low air pressure through the IP since it was sitting on a shelf?
 
Badaxe said:
Passed emissions with flying anti-freeze three weeks ago! lol Less than one minute into the test, just after explaining to my son all the different things that were going on, he yelled and pointed to a deluge of green fluid pouring from under the hood. The truck was shut down immediately and upon popping the hood we found that the upper radiator hose had come off. Yep all of my green stuff all over the floor heading toward the dyno. Long story short....spill soaked up, hose reattached with real hose clamp, and fluids topped off. Tech said "I know the truck, the light went off under throttle, so it passes. Don't worry about the mess, it's the second time in 35+ years and I've got guys to clean up."

Last Saturday it sprung a major fuel leak under the FFM so replacing lines, doing FTB, new injectors, and thinking IP. I remember reading about someone having issues with IP and engine not turning to access bolts and advice given to turn w/GPs out. Based on this theory should I do IP with injectors out? And are there problems with putting low air pressure through the IP since it was sitting on a shelf?
Click to expand...
That line might've been leaking for some time and be the cause of code 36.
Befor swapping the IP,
I would swap the IP return tube permanently for a clear one and make sure there is no air coming trough.Engine on or off.
It would be wise to install a permanent fuel pressure gauge as well,saves a whole pile of potential trouble down the road.
I find them more important than any other gauge.
 
That is the route I would prefer to take, but it is a 5459 IP and the new one is a 5521 FWIW. Not having the time set program and other little goodies, maybe I will just keep it simple.
 
Badaxe said:
How do I build one of these?


Pardon the repost of the pictures.
View attachment 31166
View attachment 31167
Click to expand...

Hey, that's my set up! I apologize for not answering your question sooner. I honestly didn't see it which is surprising as much time as I spend on these forums...any way, to answer your question.

The modified set up came with the ATT I got from 635. Easy guys, it isn't included with ATT purchase. He had the OEM oil drain line attachments from the block and turbo modified to accept the AN-6 (IIRC) "Male" fittings by a machinist pal of his. It required welding a tube in place that could be threaded to accept the fittings.

I went to a local shop (EVCO House of Hose) and purchased hose and the 45 degree "Female" ends (he had originally used 90* fittings) to ensure there was no restriction to flow at the block. I measured, added about .5" and wrapped that area to be cut with electrical tape to hold the steel braid in place when cutting.
The first time I used a hack saw and when trying to attach the female fitting, I can tell you it wasn't effective enough as my fingers looked, felt, and bled like I had lost a game of blind man's bluff with a porcupine. I used a cut off wheel on my grinder to get things "right" and it went a lot better and quicker.

With the frequent swaps I was doing with the ATT and GM Turbos, I can tell you that this set up saved me some time trying to get at the bolts holding the on oil drain line to the turbo charger.

Thanks for the compliment. Next trip through Denver I'll be sure to let you know I'm coming through and maybe we can link up.

Paul
 
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