6.2-5 Speed Into 2nd Gen El Camino...

[CORVAIRWILD]

I'm looking to buy an original well patina'd '64 El Camino, and too many of them have the typical Small Block 283 or 327, so I thought the rebuilt 6.2 I have lying around would be a little different, and improve the mpg somewhat as well.

Way back in the early 80's I had a '76 Ventura with the Olds 260 and 5 speed transmission. this car was very rusty, so I sold it, but soon after regretted it, so found someone that had just scrapped a '77 Cutlass, also with the 260-5 speed. I bought the transmission, and still have the 5 speed and bellhousing and flywheel. At the same time I also had a '75 Ventura 4 door, this one with a straight 6 and 3 speed manual, but with buckets and console. Strange that the 5 speed cars only came without console, and my 4 door had nice white buckets & console which looked more like it would belong in a Grand Prix!

Anyhow, what clutch disc would I use? Will the flywheel bolt up the the 6.2? What's the specifications on this BorgWarner transmission? Or will I have to get one from an SM465 4 speed or newer 6.5-NV3500 5 speed? Will the shifter be correctly placed? I'm pretty sure the transmission would handle the low powered 6.2, as the 5 speed wasn't available with the Olds 350. I also have either a Banks Sidewinder Turbo or ATS Turbo on some other mid 80's Suburbans I will be scrapping. The turbo ads 50%, or 70HP. Thoughts?

 

[GM Guy]

well, as far as newer transmissions, the 6.5L came with the NV4500, not the 3500.
if you leave the turbo off, I woldnt worry too much about the NV3500 if you want a lighter snappier trans, but IMo the 4500 is no sluch in the shifting department.

how will the olds 5 speed bolt to the 6.2L? keep in mind only the 350 diesel was olds bolt pattern, the 6.2L and 6.5L are big chevy bolt pattern. (opposed to small chevy, used in compact trucks and cars)

 

[CORVAIRWILD]

Oh, I guess the NV3500 came in the SB gas... What tranny do I have, from the '76 Olds? Where would the shifter end up if I used a 4500? Is ther 4500 only used in the pickups? What about something like the T5 from an S10? Don't guys use those in hi-po Camaros and such? The bell housing in in fact different, but I'll just get a Chevy BH, I'll have to see if it bolts to the BW tranny I now have. Or I'll look for a NV3500 from a pickup...

 

[GM Guy]

well, the question I dont have an answer to is what did half modern RWD GM cars (camaro, corvette, impala pre 96, etc) have for a bellhousing pattern? big or small chevy?

pics of the trans tunnel for ideas. any good side shot pics and a bellhousing flange to shifter measurement?

 

[ak diesel driver]

tho rare there are a few universal olds/sbc bellhousings out there

 

[CORVAIRWILD]

I'll get some measurements tmrw, and a twin bolt pattern manual bellhousing? Hmmm... seen em for automatics... Chevy used the same BH pattern from at least 55 on, prolly before, and Buick was the last to switch to "normal" GM in '67. The TH400 had the round Buick shape BH for '65 -'66

 

[THEFERMANATOR]

There is no big or small chevy bolt pattern, there is the chevy 90 degree and 60 degree bolt pattern. Then there was the BOP bolt pattern for the other GM products. The trans you have pictured is a BORG WARNER T50, and is only rated to 200HP from a gas engine, and was only offered behind the 6 cylinders as it couldn't handle a V-8.

 

[GM Guy]

thanks for the insight ferm. I had allways heard about how you cant use a 4l60E from a fullsize in a S10, and also heard about big and small. I just assumed the internet was true, and never saw a trans out of a car or S10 to show me otherwise.

What does the 4 cyl. use in S10s then? the 60 degree?

Is there much size difference, or are they roughly the same overall size, just different bolt spacing?

 

[CORVAIRWILD]

The 2.8 in the front drive Citation used a smaller bot pattern, but must have been the the larger familiar pattern in the S10 Blazer w the 4.3 cause a friend put one (700R4) in a FS pickup, so the 2.8 in the pre '89's used a smaller BH, if I hv it rite

 

[CORVAIRWILD]

But this trans came in the PP size 260 V8, and the 6.2 is 135, and 200 w the turbo. but I'll look for an NV4500. No rush, I don't have the Elky yet, but I'm looking...

The trans you have pictured is a BORG WARNER T50, and is only rated to 200HP from a gas engine, and was only offered behind the 6 cylinders as it couldn't handle a V-8.

 

[THEFERMANATOR]

For a car I would think the NV4500 would be overkill. Your 5 speed you have now wasn't even rated for a small block chevy, so the torque of the 6.2 will destroy it. With a diesel it isn't the HP, but the torque that breaks things. And low RPM torque(like a diesel) is brutal on drivetrains. As for bolt patterns, the 4.3L is a 90 degree v engine, so it uses the standard 90 degree bolt pattern same as a small block chevy, big block chevy, 6.2/6.5, and even my DURAMAX(but the newer style engines have an extra bolt hole in the top of the bellhousing that earlier ones didn't use eevn though GM put that extra boss in almost all the 90 degree V engines). The 4 cylinders and the 60 degree V engines used the GM 60 degree bellhousing pattern. As for a trans from a fullsize not going into an S-10, it will if it's a 4.3L but no if it's a 2.8L. And since you mentioned S-10, it isn't adviseable using an S-10 4L60E in a fullsize as the lighter duty 4L60E's had less clutches in them for smoother shifting at lower HP outputs.

Back on topic, a NV3500 would probably work just fine for a car with a 6.2 or 6.5 in it so long as you kept the torque output down low to a minimum. Since you probably won't be towing much with it, it should be able to handle it. But if you go turning the power up then it will die on you. Torque is the killer, and most smaller case trannies simply can't take the torque.

 

[CORVAIRWILD]

Have you ever driven a 6.2NA? I have a few, and they're OK around town, but a joke on any hills, and my K5 has the optional 3.73's w 700R4, and my so called SF Sub (bot in San Francisco in 2007) also has the less common in 3/4 tons 700R4 and the usual (for 3/4 ton) 4.10's. (Most 3/4 tons had the TH400, and OK in a gas, but not a low revving 6.2 w 4.10's, the only optional gear in a 3/4 was 3.73's, but I've never seen one, all 4.10's)

 

[THEFERMANATOR]

Haven't driven a N/A, but it still has more bottem end torque than a small block chevy I bet. The NV3500 would be ideal for a N/A, but with a turbo it may be borderline. The trans you have now I don't think would hold up well. GM replaced it with the T5 trans which is rated for higher torque levels, but even it is a light duty trans by any standards.

 

[6.2 turbo]

My NV3500 is holding up behind a 6.2 with a turbo .

 

[NoDak]

I put alot of miles on a 6.2na's, they are not a 6.5turbo by any stretch... but they had no trouble getting on down the road... even with 3.42 ring gear n pinion! The 6.2na only had low end torque to offer, because if you wind them up, they run out of air.

I don't have any experience with the manuals, but my 4L80E is a few days from clicking over 400,000 miles (stock). The first 100k got regular fluid every 30k and very infrequent towing. But since 100k its been on Amzoil and alot of light duty high speed towing, usually change fluid every 30k or 40k, but forget sometimes and it goes to 70k. The last 100k have been hopped up slightly with the ATeam and such, so it gets a fair amount of stop light fun.

Not sure this helps as you might not want an auto tranny... but if you like to stand on it at low speeds and from a stop(light)... you may want something as durable to take the abusive torque??

Come on... put a turbo on that thing!!! LOL

Good luck with that hot rod. I sure miss the days when my great uncle used to take all us kids for ice cream in the box of his black el'camino!!!

 

[CORVAIRWILD]

I have several 6.2's and 6.5's, they are as different as nite and day. I have 3 parts trucks, 2 have the Banks Sidewinder, and one has an ATS turbo, which is a cruder set up, but the ex manifold sits a bit further from the block allowing for easier glo plugs. I also have an identical Sub to the one I drive everyday, the 2nd one also has a Banks, but I just store it for now. I'm looking at El Camino's everyday...

http://dallas.craigslist.org/dal/cto/3713787100.html

 

[NoDak]

"Different" is an understatement when you consider the electronic (injection pump and automatic transmission)!

So, in addition to the romantic connection with the stick shifter, the hurtles of electronics are huge.

I think the point to get out of all this is that you must not forget that any of the 6.2's or 6.5's with or without turbos will all have alot of bottom end torque.

 

[CORVAIRWILD]

Tell us more about your fuel mizers...

 

[Pillow]

I currently run a T-5 from an S-10 behind my SBC 350 in the '71 truck. I used the stock bell housing, but purchased a different clutch disc to match the splines of the T-5. Also I needed a custom spacer, which is available for about $100, I cannot remember who made it though...

Anyway, the long plan is to drop a 6.2 in place of the 350. But I need a 6.2 flywheel at this point... They are always around until you need one!

Please keep us posted! When I have a win story on mine I will post up as well.

 

[Burning oil]

I have plans for a simular project. Im looking for a 1966/7 Impala Wagon to do a 6.5/4L80E swap Next choice would be a 1968-72 Chevelle wagon or Elcamino. Just missed a 66 Impala wagon this past Sunday at the auction too:cryin:
On the 64, did they ever come factory with a big block in that body style" If not you may be looking at firewall mods....ect to get a diesel to fit.
Also do you care about gearing? With a gasser trans Your top end may suffer or you may have to rap up the engine thus reducing MPGs.
IMO go with a 4L80E. I have one in my 72 Chevelle.