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Fuel delivery?

N

Nico

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Location
Sabinas Hidalgo NL, MX.
Hola

Ever since I got my truck running a couple months ago I've been having a little issue with fuel delivery (my guess) the truck starts no problem works like a charm but sometimes I have to kill the engine to avoid long periods of idle (diesel price keeps going up here every week) then when I start it again it does start but dies after 2 seconds and I have to purge the air from the fuel lines and what not, after doing it this, it starts right up.. when I first got the truck it wasnt that big of a deal cause it was very seldom that this happened, but now its doing it every day. Whats a good way to check for air getting into the fuel system? (so to speak) Also while purging the air out my dad mentioned that once while cranking there was no fuel coming out of the T valve, might this be the lift pump going out, or a bad OPS maybe?
thanks for any and all help
 
Bienvenidos al forum!

You got your signature done. You are 1 of 2. The 2nd thing you need to do is copy and paste the diagnostic checklist from the stickies at the top of the page in red and fill it out. You need to go through everything line by line and be as detailed as possible. This way we can see the whole picture as to what you have done test wise to your truck diagnosing it as well as other details. The last thing you want to do is replace an expensive part when it could have cost you nothing to fix.
 
Is there actually air coming out that you hear? Probably LP like you thought. The diagnositc sheet would tell us what kind of fuel you have been using and additives, which might be involved if clogged your sock. Did you check your LP fuse and relay operation?

Are you using the Heavy duty type fuel filter or the stock stanadyne type?
 
The EXACT thing just happened to me today, and I went to check lift pump out and i noticed the LP outlet line was wet. I gave it a 1/8th turn snug (5/8 ths wrench) and 3/4 wrench required for flare nuts.

Within 2 minutes of idling, my SES light went out and truck is runnig great thus far. My fingers are still crossed.

Same exact symptoms, truck start fine, then die out, I even went as far as to pull my fuel filter and bowl was empty. My LP is 5 months old AC DELCO for 93 year truck. I didn't suspect its early failure, but figured I'd check it out under there anyhow.

Look for ANY wet fuel lines.

You'll know it when you see it.
 
took me a while to get back with this cause I was out of town but here it is:

Truck starts and works great but sometimes re starting after killing the engine it does start but dies after 5 or so seconds, purging air out of the fuel filter and t valve will make it purr again.

- Year:1994
- Truck model and class (ie: c2500) c3500 DRW
- Automatic or Standard Auto
- Mileage: (indicate miles or km) 128600 miles
- Replaced parts and mods (IP, PMD, chip/PCM, TM, injectors etc) remote mounted fsd
- Model: ‘S’ or ‘F’ engine, NA or Turbo, EGR? no clue.. can someone tell if i provide the vin?
- Ambient outside temp: (indicate *C or *F) any temperature
- What fuel are you using? (#1 Diesel, #2 Diesel, Bio, VO, WVO, etc) regular PEMEX pump diesel (thats all we have here in Mexico)
- What fuel additives are you using? none
- Where are you located? Sabinas Hidalgo, in the great state of Nuevo Leon, Mexico

Air filter 3 months
- Fuel filter 3 months.
- CDR Valve? i dont know what this is
- Coolant – last flushed/replaced at: dont know
- Oil – synthetic/regular, changed at regular rotella 15- 40 @ 125500 miles
- Batteries – state of charge, (matched set) replaced at match set 3 months old
- Battery cables and grounds (removed, cleaned and tightened): battery grounds and cables are alright
- Glow Plugs - how many miles on them? Im thinking it has the same plugs it came with from the factory. What type? oem maybe
- Injectors - last changed not changed yet as far as I know.

What were you doing when it happened? nothing
- How was the truck running fine before this problem appeared? as good as always
- Has this problem ever happened before? it happens every day or two
- Describe any related factors that might be part of the problem. one of the fuel lines had a leak, my mechanic cut the leaky part and put it back on, he said it was kinda stretched now so that might be where air might be entering the fuel lines
- Have you checked for DTC (Diagnostic Trouble Codes)? (Y.N) Yes And? code 78 but that's a different story.

Does the engine start? Yes but sometimes it wont after killing it.
1b] Does the engine crank over? Yes
1c] Are your batteries fully charged? Yes
1d] Have you removed, cleaned, and tightened all battery connections? Yes
1e] Does your Wait to Start light come on for a time? How long? dont have a wait to start light
1f] Does your glow plug light come on? Yes For how long? bout ten seconds or so, depending on how cold or warm the morning is
1g] Do you see smoke from the exhaust while cranking? What color? no smoke

Can you hear your lift pump working? Yes
2b] Do you get a steady flow of fuel from the water drain (T-handle) ? usually yes, but theres bubbles coming out after it dies
2c] Loosen the inlet line from the IP – is fuel coming out (Lift Pump on)? yes
2d] Loosen an injector line and crank the engine - does fuel come out? yes
2e] Do you hear a vacuum (hiss) when you remove the fuel cap? very seldom do i hear a vacuum

3a] Location of PMD (on pump, on intake, remote mounted) Remote
3b] Condition of Extension harness (if used) Vendor or Homemade? good condition, bought from a vendor
3c] Condition of grounds / ground wires to IP / PMD. Check Harness. good
3d] PMD Make: Dipaco
3e] PMD Age: 3 months

Do you experience stalling only when hot? yeah, pretty much
4b] Does it stall under particular circumstances? (ie hit bump, or on accel) no it just dies a few seconds after restarting
4c] Does pouring cool water over the IP seem to help with restarting?
theres no need to pour water to restart
Is stalling momentary (engine recovers)? not unless i purge all the air out
4e] Does SES light come on when engine hiccups? no
4f] Does cruise control quit working when engine hiccups? my cruise control doesnt work at all
4g] Does re-starting seem to reset engine, restoring cruise and power? CC doesnt work at all
4h] Changes to dash lights or instruments during stalling events? none

5a] On cold start, does upper rad hose get hard before engine warms up? no
5b] Any bubbles or oil film in coolant overflow tank? no
5c] Any white slime on oil surfaces (dipstick, CDR, oil Fill cap)? no
5d] Excessive white smoke from exhaust on cold start? no
5e] Excessive black smoke from exhaust under hard acceleration? no

6a] Do you have gauges? no
6b] Maximum boost under load? dont know
6c] Have you added a performance PCM (reflash) or Chip? no
6d] Have you changed exhaust / downpipe / crossover? bought truck with a very loud dual exhaust tip
6e] Wastegate – mechanical or vacuum? vacuum, stock

7a] Single or dual thermostats? not sure, single I believe
7b] Have you replaced them lately? Manufacturer of replacements? no
7c] Have you pulled and cleaned Radiator and coolers lately? no
7d] Have you replaced the fan clutch? Manufacturer of replacement? no
7e] (winter) Have you tested your antifreeze? Good to what temp? havent tested
7f] (winter) Are you using a winter grille cover? it doesnt get that cold here.

I've had this truck for about three or so months, bought non running after it had been sitting for over 8 years, the previous owner described the issues he had with the truck I looked them up on the internet and figured it would be the PMD, bought the truck and brought it to my mechanic, he did some checking on it and told me that the previous guy had really messed up the wiring and managed to fry the ECM a new ECM and some more checking later we figured the PMD was indeed the culprit, we started it on a blend of really old and new fuel without any problems. I once dropped to fuel tank to check if the float was stuck or something cause my fuel gauge is always on Full, and when i turn the key the orange needle goes further to the right beyond the full mark.. not knowing to check for snot or stuff like that I just saw that the float thingie wasnt stuck so I put everything back together
 
Sounds just like other peoples problems with the clogged sock in the fuel tank, especially since it sat for 8 years. should have drained that tank. The poster above, Matt, has a good thread about it.

I think your Pemex is still regular sulfur, so thats good for you.

Off topic, did you try a PMD first, or the ECM, because I have had 2 stealerships tell me mine wouldnt start because of a missing ECM signal, and a decent diesel shop too, and I knew there was nothing wrong with it so I replaced IP and it works fine. I think they get confused by the different IP models that work different with the ECM in only 94.

You have an L65 "F" engine, only 1500s and some 2500s had the EGR on top of the intake and a catalytic converter.
 
You can figure F or S engine just by reading the VIN or looking at the intake manifold. The EGR valve looks kind like a flying saucer that landed on top of your intake. On the VIN it's the 8th figure of that long number/letter combo.
The CDR (Crankcase Depression Regulator) is like a gasser's PCV valve, but way bigger. It's called a tuna can - For good reason - It looks like one. It will be the big can stuck into your valve cover (pass side on my 95).
You say you get bubbles from the T-Handle - That line comes from the bottom of the fuel manager (before the filter) and would mean the you're getting air, or trying to pull fuel but can't, or the LP isn't running, or the LP IS running, but not really pumping anything.
 
Harbor freight sells a nice fuel pressure guage for about 10 bux.

Get that and 9 feet of vacuum hose for a few bux, (so you can watch fuel pressure while driving)

Hook that up to the BACK SIDE of the t-valve, pull the hose that is on there off.

See what your pressures are, and see if they dropping. Read my thread about Detailed Fuel Pressure results/ pump or clog.

Fast way, if your truck stalls on you, crack the fuel filter bleeder, see if it hisses. If so, your creating a vacuum instead of fuel pressure.

Probably need to blow your sock clean, or drop the tank and clean it. Need to verify you're loosing pressure.

On mine, it would lose enough pressure to putt putt and die, but simply it being turned off, must broke free alot of the gunk on my sock and it would be fine on restart for a while.

I also just started using a rear tank that sat for about a year caused me problems.
 
Off topic, did you try a PMD first, or the ECM, because I have had 2 stealerships tell me mine wouldnt start because of a missing ECM signal, and a decent diesel shop too, and I knew there was nothing wrong with it so I replaced IP and it works fine.
Click to expand...

ECM first, the mechanic said neither the lift or the IP were getting any signals and something about the previous owner powering a ground cable or something like that, long story short ECM was toast.

I see the Tuna Can, but dont think its ever been changed and I dont see anything over the intake manifold other than the cover that has a pipe going towards the turbo/air filter (sorry im new to owning a chevy diesel)

now, how do I clean the sock? should I just blow pressurized air from behind the LP into the tank or do I have to drop the tank? if the tank must be dropped, what does the sock look like and how do I clean it?

Off topic: I've been towing up to 5.7 tons with the truck and its starting to use/burn oil, stuck rings? should I start another thread for this?:confused:
 
Yep, think the mechanic got you a new ECM for no reason, as it doesnt power the lift pump and in 94 it didnt have the same signals to the IP. In 96+ it does power the lift pump in a way.

The tuna can, can be causing your oil consumption, as it sucks fumes out of the valve cover, but if not operating correctly it will suck a lot of oil out of the cover and put it into the intake.

Check out the other threads for tank sock, its got infor and pictures to blow it out like you said
http://www.dieseltowingresource.com/showthread.php?t=6791
 
The mechanic may not have known that the OPS has direct powerup to LP, not ECM.

BUT if you say your getting fuel out of bleeder on top of Fuel Filter than LP is working,

Yep, remove the Fuel tank to LP fuel liine and blow air back into tank.

The sock is just a white bagscreen on the end of the sending unit Pickup. Well, it starts as white anyhow :)
 
I've been looking at tank sock pictures and I dont think I remember seeing that when I dropped the tank and pulled the FSU out, however I still did the air into the tank trick, hopefully that'll fix it. Also my LP looks different than those on another threads pics and theres quite a bit of a mess of loose cables down there :mad2:.. go figure
 
Nico said:
I've been looking at tank sock pictures and I dont think I remember seeing that when I dropped the tank and pulled the FSU out, however I still did the air into the tank trick, hopefully that'll fix it. Also my LP looks different than those on another threads pics and theres quite a bit of a mess of loose cables down there :mad2:.. go figure
Click to expand...

Goes without saying to check that all out and clean it up a little. Wipe everything down and secure it neatly, making sure its all in good shape.
 
The tuna can, can be causing your oil consumption, as it sucks fumes out of the valve cover, but if not operating correctly it will suck a lot of oil out of the cover and put it into the intake.
Click to expand...

Apparently this is exactly whats happening as part of the intake tubes and the piece of plastic held with clamps looks wet with oil. I've been looking online for this EGR valve at napa oreilly and such but all I get is gasket sets and connectors, my question would be, is the EGR something that can be opened and fixed (wih new gaskets) or do I have to get the whole canister and swap it?
 
You dont have an EGR, that sits on top of the intake, not there on 3500 trucks, The EGRs are only on "S" VIN engines also known as L56. you have the "F" VIN L65 engine.

You need a CDR (crankshaft depression regulator) valve, parts stores are clueless about it usually. Some oil is OK, but yours is likely letting way too much through.

Check it out here for info.
http://www.ssdieselsupply.com/product_56_Crankcase_Depression_Regulator_Valve.html
 
also, did you get the LP working, if it wasnt working before the ECM, its not working now :) unless you fixed the problem, like the fuse or relay and OPS. The fuse and relay are on the firewall on the passenger side behind a plastic cover. The OPS controls the LP when running and your oil pressure guage, if either isnt working right change the OPS down below the GLO-Plug relay by the firewall drivers side next to the fuel filter assembly.

you cant fix the CDR, there are no gaskets. You can pull it off and look at it, it pulls right out, Its a big spring gate thing. I found paper or something in my old one when I replace it, not sure where it came from, unless an internal gasket had ripped up, which you cant change.
 
buddy said:
You dont have an EGR, that sits on top of the intake, not there on 3500 trucks, The EGRs are only on "S" VIN engines also known as L56. you have the "F" VIN L65 engine.

You need a CDR (crankshaft depression regulator) valve, parts stores are clueless about it usually. Some oil is OK, but yours is likely letting way too much through.

Check it out here for info.
http://www.ssdieselsupply.com/product_56_Crankcase_Depression_Regulator_Valve.html
Click to expand...


Forget about overseas shipment from SSD, unless they have changed their program they only ship using UPS and UPS overseas freight charges will kill you, CDR (CrankCASE Dep Reg) is common part check std sources in NL for GM truck parts.

Buddy some L65s do have EGR, depends where sold, and emission requiresments where sold, some 2500s are classed as LD which require EGR.
 
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