Anybody have heater hose/core flow data?

[n8in8or]

Right now I have a screen filter to keep junk out of the expensive Brassworks heater core in my 94 K3500. I did this because I got tired of the heater cores in my Tahoe getting plugged and needing to be replaced, so no way I was going to have that happen with this. Well the screen is doing a great job of keeping junk out, but unfortunately I’ve had to take it apart twice to clean it and I have less than 50 miles on the truck so far. I know you can buy bypass coolant filters you put in the heater hose to clean the whole system, but I don’t like the idea of any unfiltered coolant getting to the core. I have found a screw on coolant filter and a base it will go on so I’m good to go there, but I would like to monitor flow to the heater core when I do this for 2 reasons: 1. There wasn’t a flow rating for the filter, so I don’t know if it’s capable of flowing enough and 2. Since this isn’t a bypass filter and could potentially block all flow to the heater core, I want to have a flow meter in place so I can monitor the health of the filter. So with all that said, I need to know a good range to shoot for in a flow meter so I get good information. If it can flow 50gpm, a 5 gpm meter will be pretty useless and vice-versa. I’m just hoping someone can get me in the ballpark to start. I had initially considered just getting one of those visual flow indicators so I could see if it was still flowing, but I think it would be much more helpful to be able to grade the health of the filter rather than just say “yup, it’s still flowin’” or “dang, darn thing’s plugged up”….being able to monitor flow degradation will help me plan for replacement. I tried Googling for this info, but any answers I did find looked to be guesses. Thanks for any info!

Here’s my existing screen filter in the supply hose.



And here’s the filter and base I intend to install on the passenger fender. I also intend to have a bypass valve so if it does get blocked and it’s cold outside I can get heat in an emergency.

 

[ak diesel driver]

Only thing I can think of is to use radiator pressure to calculate flow through the hose id

 

[Will L.]

Dang, cant do the ‘fill a bucket and count’ trick because you need to know when at normal operating pressure.

Normally two pressure gauges to read pressure differential for learning plugged filters.

 

[n8in8or]

Dang, cant do the ‘fill a bucket and count’ trick because you need to know when at normal operating pressure.

Normally two pressure gauges to read pressure differential for learning plugged filters.

Oh yeah, I forgot about doing it that way. Of course that won’t tell me if the filter is capable of flowing enough in the first place. I guess if I bypass the inlet gauge and filter, but Y back in before the exhaust gauge then I could compare that reading to the inlet gauge reading when it’s forced to go through the gauge and filter and that would tell me if the filter is a measurable restriction or not.

 

[snarl95]

What about a filter that goes into upper radiator hose?

 

[MrMarty51]

The newer big Cummins engines had a spin on filter/coolant treatment unit.
We would test the SCA level then install the conditioner/filter to maintain the proper level of protection. Some filters were just that, a filter with no conditioner properties.
I dont remember just where the spin on filter adapter was installed, but, IIRC it was on one of the heater hoses.
If You installed one of those systems, it would allow for much more flow capacity and would not plug so easily.

 

[MrMarty51]

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[n8in8or]

What about a filter that goes into upper radiator hose?

Those upper radiator hose filters won't do what I'm looking for because the heater circuit runs parallel to the radiator so it won't stop any particles from getting to the heater core........sure it will filter all the coolant over time, but until it does that, there's still an opportunity for junk to get into my heater core. I also worry that with the amount of stuff I've been collecting in this heater hose filter so far that the radiator hose filter would get blinded and affect coolant flow through the radiator.

The newer big Cummins engines had a spin on filter/coolant treatment unit.
We would test the SCA level then install the conditioner/filter to maintain the proper level of protection. Some filters were just that, a filter with no conditioner properties.
I dont remember just where the spin on filter adapter was installed, but, IIRC it was on one of the heater hoses.
If You installed one of those systems, it would allow for much more flow capacity and would not plug so easily.

From what I have read, most coolant filter systems are a partial-flow or bypass system, even the OEM ones. I think that makes sense that they are for those applications because the OEM wouldn't want flow to the heater to be blocked if the filter was neglected. In essence, what I'm doing is a partial-flow system as I'm only trying to filter what goes through the heater circuit at that time. My scenario differs in that it's possible for the filter to get blocked and stop flow to the heater core. I think this is ok as long as I'm aware of that and have a way to monitor the system......and actually do so........of course the first time I don't have heat will tell me something's up .

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Those are both bypass systems - you can see that they have tees at the end of the hoses, so they just run parallel to the heater core and filter whatever fluid happens to decide to go through them, which I wouldn't think is much because it seems to me that the path of least resistance would be the heater core and not the filter, but I could be mistaken there.

Attached is the coolant filter section of the Donaldson filter catalog. What's odd is that it doesn't list all of their filters. It doesn't show the filter I chose in the chart. My filter does NOT have any SCA in it, I only wanted a filter.

 

[smokymtn65]

This chart would give you some ideas I think I would make an educated guess at max of 10 -12 gpm

 

[n8in8or]

This chart would give you some ideas I think I would make an educated guess at max of 10 -12 gpm

View attachment 65394

Thanks, that's helpful, I didn't think to tackle the problem that way - my max would be what's possible to flow through the piping, so that at least gives me a cap on the flow range.

 

[ak diesel driver]

Wouldn't the max flow also be limited by the max capability of the WP of 130gpm?

 

[n8in8or]

Wouldn't the max flow also be limited by the max capability of the WP of 130gpm?

My guess would be in theory, yes, but in actuality, it seems like there are a lot of variables in play that would affect it. It would be really interesting to see the flow through the heater circuit when the thermostat is closed and then observe it after it's opened and see what change there is, if any. The smaller size of the heater plumbing along with the small size of the heater core may cap flow fairly low and then anything beyond that goes to the engine cooling circuit regardless of water pump flow, so any additional water pump flow that comes from better water pumps is just gravy for the engine.

 

[smokymtn65]

I would be curious, if you pull the line off to the heater core and deadhead it with a pressure gauge it should be fairly easy to calculate the flow based on how many PSI it will generate, going to be low I think. if there is very much restriction it will just take path of least resistance and circulate through motor.

 

[nobby]

As Will said normally differential gauges for establishing a clogged filter, however a crucial part to this discussion is that it is a circulating pump and hence creates a pressure differential to create flow so in a non pressure building pump set up not really most likely workable.

So back to flow, meters and in essence loss of flow. Well my first crude reaction solution is when the cab heat stops the filter is plugged. Extrapolating from that measuring temp down the hose a bit from the filter and differentially comparing it to the rest of the coolant temp.

Cheers
Nobby

 

[Will L.]

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Cant do it based on just pressure because it is not a positive displacement pump.
You just need the sensor and reader. Probably available for half this cost out there somewhere...

 

[n8in8or]

As Will said normally differential gauges for establishing a clogged filter, however a crucial part to this discussion is that it is a circulating pump and hence creates a pressure differential to create flow so in a non pressure building pump set up not really most likely workable.

So back to flow, meters and in essence loss of flow. Well my first crude reaction solution is when the cab heat stops the filter is plugged. Extrapolating from that measuring temp down the hose a bit from the filter and differentially comparing it to the rest of the coolant temp.

Cheers
Nobby

My hope is to do things in a more proactive manner and monitor a drop in flow over time rather than just react to a clogged filter......in which case I'd have to open the bypass valve and let all the little bits flow to the heater core.

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Cant do it based on just pressure because it is not a positive displacement pump.
You just need the sensor and reader. Probably available for half this cost out there somewhere...

I hadn't thought to check Amazon. I was looking on eBay for used, mechanical flow meters. One of those on Amazon related to the one you sent could be slick.

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[smokymtn65]

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Cant do it based on just pressure because it is not a positive displacement pump.
You just need the sensor and reader. Probably available for half this cost out there somewhere...

True, however it still requires pressure to push it through the heater core. If the heater core line won't develop some pressure, it would just by-pass and circulate in the motor. This would be my only concern for putting a filter in the line would be cold weather .

 

[ak diesel driver]

The specs on this one might be better

Amazon.com : RAINPOINT Water Meter, Digital Water Flow Meter with Quick Connectors, Measure Water Consumption and Flow Rate in Gallons Liters, Ideal for RV Hose, Garden Sprinkler, Hose Nozzle : Garden & Outdoor

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[n8in8or]

The specs on this one might be better

Amazon.com : RAINPOINT Water Meter, Digital Water Flow Meter with Quick Connectors, Measure Water Consumption and Flow Rate in Gallons Liters, Ideal for RV Hose, Garden Sprinkler, Hose Nozzle : Garden & Outdoor

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I like the configuration and size of that one, but I'd be worried about how it would handle hot coolant. Most plastic-bodied meters I've seen have a rated limit of 150-ish degrees.

 

[nobby]

My hope is to do things in a more proactive manner and monitor a drop in flow over time rather than just react to a clogged filter......in which case I'd have to open the bypass valve and let all the little bits flow to the heater core.



I hadn't thought to check Amazon. I was looking on eBay for used, mechanical flow meters. One of those on Amazon related to the one you sent could be slick.

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I get that and whilst I have only given this so much thought there is plausibly merit in looking at temp differential using accurate temp measurement. Perhaps a waste of time but I'd most likely play around with installing a Tee and digital temp gauge and sender and seeing if I could establish a noteable differential in temp when placing some or more restriction on flow. It could be just single digit degrees changes but if it is reproducible that is still valid.

Cheers
Nobby