V2 - Happy I spent the cash.

[RVC]

Yes, I had an overheater with less than stellar mileage. For 3 years prior to the V2 install, I was listening to the fan roar, with a couple of those times while I was running empty. My empty mileage is a combination city/hi-way, as I live 30 miles from town with only a few miles on gravel. My loaded mileage is the same 600 mile trip with all sorts of summer weather conditions. Big head wind, tail wind, no wind, and temps ranging from 30's to the 90's.

Since installing the V2 I have heard the fan 3 times. All on the same hill in above 85 degree temps. Not bad considering that I don't take the edge out of level 3 anymore.

The truck in my sig sits @ 8250# with the trailer being a 3 horse gooseneck weighing in @ 10100# when loaded.

mpg in usa gallons

pre V2
empty, edge level 3 : 15.21 mpg
loaded, edge level 1-2 depending on terrain and temp : 11.09 mpg

V2
empty, edge level 3 : 16.4 mpg
loaded, edge level 3, terrain and temp no longer matter : 13.48 mpg

V2 w/ air dam
empty, edge level 3 : 17.09 mpg
loaded, edge level 3, terrain and temp no longer matter : 14.15 mpg

 

[stacks04]

cool. no pun intended. temp makes a huge differance, as well as the fan not running.

 

[sodfarmer]

Said it once and I'll say it again, the v2 is the best mod on my truck. PERIOD. Congrats.

 

[Ed HD]

n00b question here, V2?

 

[Unit453]

Its a bigger radiator for the 2004.5-2005 LLY engines that allows superior cooling as compared to the stock system. Its a fix for the ongoing overheating issues that the 2nd generation engines had.


I'll see if I can get TXChris to come here to explain what it is and how its beneficial to an engine.

 

[Ed HD]

Ok, hmm, sounds interesting, ours always runs at about 210*, so idk. I really want to upgrade to an electric fan setup, as the stock fan always kicks on at the wrong time, sounds like i'm trying to run a propeller on the front of the thing, takes too much power to turn.

 

[RVC]

I don't think there is an electric fan setup that will move enough air on its own to keep the engine cool. Adding the V2 with the fan makes it so the factory fan is more of a backup, and will scare you if it kicks in because you have forgotten what it sounds like.

 

[OCDUNE]

not a bigger radiator but an aux radiator that sits below the stack (behind the bumper) that gets its own stream of fresh air. This isn't some redneck contraption either, this is engineered with extensive testing. I am guessing chris has made several hundred of them so they have been proven by now.

 

[killerbee]

... Its a fix for the ongoing overheating issues that the 2nd generation engines had.

it is not a fix for overheating, as load induced overheating is not caused by a deficient cooling system.

If you desire to fix something, to have to find the origin cause of the problem instead of addressing symptoms. The cause of this problem has at least 5 easily identifiable symptoms, all of which are removed when you remove this cause, instead of just one.

IAT increase
Excess Fan Activity
Power loss
Turbo Overspeed
ECT

Intrinsically, the value of a V2 is about $60, $50 more than what you will get when you turn it in with all those crushed soda cans. This reality comes into focus when you see how the vehicle performs with this flaw removed.

The V2 is merely an after-the-fact, band-aid treatment for one of the symptoms (ECT) of the same flaw that causes overheating. That design flaw is not cooling system related, it is strictly induction system Thermal Feedback.

I realize that people will need to defend thier investments, but that too will be realized as an illusion, when all 5 symptoms can be removed with 1/5th the cash outlay, a horrifying reality for those storing these devices on their vehicles.

 

[uscanuck]

it is not a fix for overheating, as load induced overheating is not caused by a deficient cooling system.

If you desire to fix something, to have to find the origin cause of the problem instead of addressing symptoms. The cause of this problem has at least 5 easily identifiable symptoms, all of which are removed when you remove this cause, instead of just one.

IAT increase
Excess Fan Activity
Power loss
Turbo Overspeed
ECT

Intrinsically, the value of a V2 is about $60, $50 more than what you will get when you turn it in with all those crushed soda cans. This reality comes into focus when you see how the vehicle performs with this flaw removed.

The V2 is merely an after-the-fact, band-aid treatment for one of the symptoms (ECT) of the same flaw that causes overheating. That design flaw is not cooling system related, it is strictly induction system Thermal Feedback.

I realize that people will need to defend thier investments, but that too will be realized as an illusion, when all 5 symptoms can be removed with 1/5th the cash outlay, a horrifying reality for those storing these devices on their vehicles.

I'll likely regret this but I'll bite.

How do you fix the 5 symptoms with 1/5th the cash outlay?

 

[sodfarmer]

it is not a fix for overheating, as load induced overheating is not caused by a deficient cooling system.

If you desire to fix something, to have to find the origin cause of the problem instead of addressing symptoms. The cause of this problem has at least 5 easily identifiable symptoms, all of which are removed when you remove this cause, instead of just one.

IAT increase
Excess Fan Activity
Power loss
Turbo Overspeed
ECT

Intrinsically, the value of a V2 is about $60, $50 more than what you will get when you turn it in with all those crushed soda cans. This reality comes into focus when you see how the vehicle performs with this flaw removed.

The V2 is merely an after-the-fact, band-aid treatment for one of the symptoms (ECT) of the same flaw that causes overheating. That design flaw is not cooling system related, it is strictly induction system Thermal Feedback.

I realize that people will need to defend thier investments, but that too will be realized as an illusion, when all 5 symptoms can be removed with 1/5th the cash outlay, a horrifying reality for those storing these devices on their vehicles.

Jerry Seinfeld, "so now you are going to burn that bridge."

George Castanza, " Flame on."

 

[Rttoys]

Gezz, let's spend all the money on your crap 'fixes' for nothing, KB. How many are there??? Now it's a mouthpiece that's the magic cure?? Yep, it's a performance gain no doubt and a great decrease in many fields, but the 'cure'...I don't think so. I know of a few trucks with your fixes and they still overheat. NONE of the vehicles with a V2 overheat. Defending my purchase?? The gains speak for themselves.

Why have you hit every system on the vehicle other that the one system that actually cools the vehicle??? Why can't you even give a schread of credit to a product that has helped so many people take care of their problem??

There are hundreds of happy customers with a V2, there are a few happy cutomers with any of your products and some very unhappy users with you, but for some reason we are wrong and you are right. You've even been quoted as to telling someone you wouldn't sell your product to them because they lived on the west coast and it won't fix their problem. :svengo: Why is that?? TxC will sell his product to anyone, anywhere and it's worked for all of them.

Your new findings on the mouthpiece/intake is great, I'm glad you took the time and effort to focus on it. I've seen no proof of it being the magic 'cure', but it is a great impovement to the overall drivability of our trucks and lowers all temps all the way around, but I'm sure under the right circumstances it will fall to the LLY overheat if that is the stand alone mod. Can you garrentee your intake with mouthpiece will cure the overheating LLY?? If I put it on, will I hear my fan ever?? If I do hear my fan, will the temps stop and not go over 217*?? That's where I'm at right now. With my V2, my max temps have been 217*. Even pulling a 8% grade in CO @ 90*, at 21,500#, high wind load, with a strong head wind, I only saw 219 for a second. The only reason my fan clutch turns on is because it was replaced by the dealer and it's much more sinsitive than my old one. Once/if it enguages, all temps stop and decrease in 2* increaments. What are the ect's with the mouthpiece/intake only in a simular situation? I know what the results are with a smaller load with less wind resistance and lower outside temps, bring out the real deal. I'm sure there is someone in your area with a real trailer. The temps are there and the rodes are there, give it a real test and report it. Many are waiting.

 

[killerbee]

I'll likely regret this but I'll bite.

How do you fix the 5 symptoms with 1/5th the cash outlay?

Working backwards:

-Stop the fan. How?

-Remove the ambient air pre-heater in front of the radiator. How?

-Increase turbo efficiency/effectiveness, which lowers CAC temp and heatsoak, increases MAF (power). How?

-Remove the excess restriction that increases compressor pressure ratio, reducing efficiency, leading to this excess heat. How?

-Identify and replace the restricive Mouthpiece with a free flowing version, such as is found in the Induction Overhaul Kit. Or modify your own existing MP for reduced restriction.

All that extra heat comes from diesel fuel. That is diesel burned to hasten the overheat process, which never goes to power the wheels. Get rid of it, and you stop burning that extra fuel...better mpg.

MPG, that's six symptoms, not five, sorry.:mad2:
There are more in reality. Transmission temps are reduced even, it's a trickle down improvement and an inherrent LLY issue that all should tend to.

 

[RVC]

Working backwards:

-Stop the fan. How?

-Remove the ambient air pre-heater in front of the radiator. How?

-Increase turbo efficiency/effectiveness, which lowers CAC temp and heatsoak, increases MAF (power). How?

-Remove the excess restriction that increases compressor pressure ratio, reducing efficiency, leading to this excess heat. How?

-Identify and replace the restricive Mouthpiece with a free flowing version, such as is found in the Induction Overhaul Kit. Or modify your own existing MP for reduced restriction.

All that extra heat comes from diesel fuel. That is diesel burned to hasten the overheat process, which never goes to power the wheels. Get rid of it, and you stop burning that extra fuel...better mpg.

MPG, that's six symptoms, not five, sorry.:mad2:
There are more in reality. Transmission temps are reduced even, it's a trickle down improvement and an inherrent LLY issue that all should tend to.

So your telling me that I can remove the V2 and install your Induction Overhaul Kit and overheat problem is still solved. Feel free to send me a kit.

 

[killerbee]

It won't cost you anything to read. Just google "Thermal Feedback"

 

[killerbee]

Why have you hit every system on the vehicle other that the one system that actually cools the vehicle???

i haven't. You'd be wrong. I spent a whole year spinning wheels on the cooling system, just like every other OCD wack job with an LLY who assumed the cooling system must be the focal point. Turns out that wasa paradigm trap. The fact of the matter is, the cooling system behaved exemplary, could find no fault with it. In fact, I could only come up with tweaks to help it, mainly air flow aids, like the shroud/seal kit, and the air dam under the TD-EOC. If those are what you referring to as disappointments, I will remind you, that nobody else at the time was doing ANYTHING, while I was trying to help...and they did help...and still do. My shrouds will never come off.

Then i gave up. When i picked it up again the next summer, it was with a paradigm shift, and a quest to answer the question:

"if the cooling system works great, then what is interfering with ECT drop across the radiator?".

The mystery started to unfold (2 years ago) with the conclusion that the LLY CAC was hotter than the LB7 CAC. I didn't know why, but it was, especially at altitude. All that was under the radar. The information was worthless without a cause.

I traced it back, and eventually found that the VGT method used by GM in the CARB "rush-to-market" was full of bugs, in the respect that there was thermal feedback everywhere I looked, and not a single method (like a wastegate) to control it. This, in turn led to a search for more obvious sources of heat to supply the VGT assisted thermal feedback erosion process. The LLY compressor mouthpiece, upon close scrutiny, and with a refresher course in compression thermodynamics, became the obvious source...now VERIFIED in testing. There are now scores of people who can verify this in the field, as well as 3rd party publications that have tested it. THIS IS WHY THERE IS A NATIONAL BACKORDER on the parts that fix it. I bought them all for inclusion in the specialized kit that fixes the issue...the issue that I have concluded is the cause of your LLY coolant issues, and 5 or 10 other symptoms. Even the Edge doesn't overheat any more :yikes:

Now you were probably asking a rhetorical question, I'm guessing not really interested in the answer, but I hope you enjoyed it nonetheless.

 

[sodfarmer]

It won't cost you anything to read. Just google "Thermal Feedback"

Why didn't you answer his question directly? Do you believe that your kit will stop my lly from overheating if I installed it on my truck and removed my V2?

 

[killerbee]

yes, assuming you don't have some other cooling failure. But if you want to discuss this more, another thread might be prudent. The google reference is meant for the reader to see cases where this is being shown.

In some cases the MAP sensor needs to be replaced, after being damaged by the heat I am speaking of. Exposed to temps of over 350F. When it malfunctions from heat or soot, the result is invariably overboost, worstening the feedback condition.

 

[Rttoys]

First of all, thank you for speaking to me and please don't call me a wack job. Just because I may not totally agree with you doesn't mean I'm wrong or insane for some reason. I don't want to get into a shouting match, it will get us no where.

I don't know how you can say you were the only one out there trying to find a cure, way back when. There were many people that were all trying to figure this out and many were behind the sceenes doing things without anyone knowing it. Many things were tested and tried. Some helped, but nothing truely worked, till later in the game when everyone could do nothing but fight.

I completely understand your thermal feedback theory, but what if you never start the thermal feedback??? That's what you are trying to do with the mouthpiece/intake by always pulling in fresh air, but that's what is aready being done with a V2 from a byproduct of it's efficiancy. It's just two different ways to approch it. The V2 works so well it doesn't let the ECT rise enough or have the underhood heat buildup enough to kick on the fan clutch therefore not even starting the thermal loop. If the loop doesn't start, you have no loop, but you seem do deny all claims of the V2. Your oil cooler tries to do the same thing, although I don't feel it does it as much as the V2, if it did, you probably would of stopped looking for a 'fix' long ago as TxC did.

The LBZ mouthpiece is a great mod, no doubt and it shows great binnefits all the way around, but I still don't believe it is THE mod that will eliminate the overheating all by itself. You just said- "yes, assuming you don't have some other cooling failure". What does that mean?? As in oil cooler, stack seals and all the stuff you sell?? That's now the 'fix'? I find it should be a great addition to the overall drivability of our trucks and it should be something that everyone should do sooner or later, but I still can't see it eliminating the overheating LLY, stand alone. Hell I'll test it for you. I'll pull my V2 and add your whole induction kit only. I'll even leave my headers and up pipes on to give you an advantage. I'm not affraid. If it, not only kills my overheating and kills my fan clutch as much or more than my V2 does, I'll let everyone know. If it doesn't kill my fan clutch as much as the V2 does, not only will everyone know, I'll even let my wife get on here to yell at you for a while because now the truck would be back to being 'noisy' again. :smash: Hell, if it does more than my V2, I'll even go pick up TxC and we will go for a ride, just to show him. I'm sure he'll be very impressed.

 

[killerbee]

First of all, thank you for speaking to me and please don't call me a wack job.

I was referring to myself. I apologize if that wasn't clear. Not you, I don't know you.

As of today I am not allowed to refer to any product I have built, so I am sorry, I can't really respond to the specifics in your post. What I was trying to say, is that I was actively providing DIY articles that allowed the sufferer to help his own cause, and also give him an avenue to purchase it instead. Back then, nobdy else was doing this.

IMO, consider those that buy into my ideas, are not loud outspoken people. They typically are the type of folk who have patience, and to some degree understand my approach, and my language. I was very unrepresented vocally, and I feel i have the respect of a number of people that all have 0-5 posts. I can't compete in a loudness contest, forums suck for me...that's ok though. You thought I was calling you a wack job, then was very nice in the way you replied to it, no complaints here.

I will say, I never felt an oil cooler, or an aux rad was a fix for overheating LLY's. An oil cooler has no business being hyped as a fix for elevated ECT's, it is what it is, and I have never represented it as anything else: a means to directly regulate engine oil temperature. Like everything else, it has benefits to other systems it may be linked to thermally.

To be honest, I realize where all this misconception comes from: from being repeatedly exposed to nonsense, spin and hate. If you get told enough times that the sky is pink, it starts to look a little less blue. IMO. I have been under scrutiny and attack in venues I have no way to defend myself, where spin is the entertainment rule of the day, and that's life, I accept it and move on. My response in this thread is solely to opine to those who may read it, and give them a wider field of view. People deserve to be able to see all the information from which to then act.

All performance aspects of these vehicles are linked, wheel HP and thermal capability. Even if you shift a small portion of the Wheel HP into the stack, the results will be alarming. That probably sounds like a riddle, but I have to dance around forum restrictions now.

You might be interested in the last issue of MaxxTorque. Another party tested this concept and on an elevated extended hard pull. But what you will hear from the critics who profit is that the vehicle got to 231 ECT, and then use this information to render the test a failure. I see this routinely, and anyone who is crafty and manipulative can do it, and do it un-rebutted from within his own controlled domain.

What you may never be told is that, for the first time, his ECT only rose to 1 degree above his fan engagement temp before it started coming down! As someone who appreciates silence, you probably appreciate that fan more now than before, and can appreciate the workload it takes to bring it on now.

I'm personally ok with 1 degree past fan engagement, and lets not get to far out of the park: your "fan free" experience is not without another fan to replace it. I really do not understand how so many people have been able to escape this fact. Relays, wiring, alternator load, etc...are these things without acknowledgement because the TV fan is conspicuously missing? Don't get me wrong, people should be happy, I read about many happy people using the V2. If you have been stuck on the side of the pass breathing dex fumes, you have good reason to be happy when it no longer does this. Hey sometimes, this is how symptoms have to be fixed.

There is so much more to this induction thing, the loss of the wastegate, etc, it just doesn't belong here.