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Resetting injector pop pressure

Tazz, thanks for the pictures. The Bosch nozzles have the "Bosch" symbol and numerical data stamped / etched on them which was the 1000 word point I was trying to make earlier and started this picture hunt. The 'suspect' nozzled injectors I pulled out only have the symbol and even the engraving/ectching of THAT is noticably different as in lower quality. The ones I have in the truck are data stamped like yours. Heck, even the medallion nozzles you shot have more data on them than my suspect ones. Again, thanks for posting the shots up.
 
So I may have misrepresented the nozzles that I have pics of. I believe that I called the Medalion nozzles to be the German made ones and I don't think that they are. I'm not real sure where they are made so if someone can shed some light on this it would really help. Either way the Medalions look a whole lot better than the India made ones. On the pics of the pintles that I have posted the India made one is the one with all of the machining marks on the beveled area and the Medalion one looks to be brand new. I did run thes in the truck for an equal amount of time.
 
buddy, did you ever put yours in at 2350? I set mine at 2350( well 7 of them, 1 at 2325)
it starts great cold but once hot it turns over for a few seconds before it starts. I also have a vibration a idle that seams to get worse when its up to temp. I have done so muc to the truck at once its hard to say what is causing it.

one reaso i set it at 2350 is cause i set one at 2200 then heated it up evenly with a torch untill i could only keep my hand on it for a few seconds, i thing about 140f then tested it and it dropped to 2050.
 
tazz said:
So I may have misrepresented the nozzles that I have pics of. I believe that I called the Medalion nozzles to be the German made ones and I don't think that they are. I'm not real sure where they are made so if someone can shed some light on this it would really help. Either way the Medalions look a whole lot better than the India made ones. On the pics of the pintles that I have posted the India made one is the one with all of the machining marks on the beveled area and the Medalion one looks to be brand new. I did run thes in the truck for an equal amount of time.
Click to expand...
I was told the Medallion injectors are made in canada by Tim at Accurate diesel. I have 2 sets of them in trucks. One truck has loud clatter but I'm not positive it's the injectors doing it. I have to swap another set in to be shure. The other truck has a bad IP so no experience from that one. I bought those before I bought my tester. I will say the running truck that has them gets horrible mpg[12 on a freeway run] No smoke.
 
You'll be seeing the "India sqirts" soon.....we'll get to see if GM OEM Delco injectors aren't a health hazzard to these already older powerplants.
 
The 097 is just the Bosch body part no. I guess it preety much depends on what nozzle they put in.

It looks like you can use a Bosch body but not a Bosch nozzle.
 
JMJNet said:
The 097 is just the Bosch body part no. I guess it preety much depends on what nozzle they put in.

It looks like you can use a Bosch body but not a Bosch nozzle.
Click to expand...

From what I gather[may not be totally correct] there is engineering specs for injectors. All the dimensions are in that spec number. The hardness /heat treating and material specs are there also. Weather a given manufacture builds them to that exact spec is the real question. A large truck/equipment manufacture could have them tested to see if they actually are to spec. Ebay shure as hell isn't going to test them and neither are any sellers,ebay or others. More or less a crap shoot. I wonder who's injectors AM General uses?
 
bk95td said:
From what I gather[may not be totally correct] there is engineering specs for injectors. All the dimensions are in that spec number. The hardness /heat treating and material specs are there also. Weather a given manufacture builds them to that exact spec is the real question. A large truck/equipment manufacture could have them tested to see if they actually are to spec. Ebay shure as hell isn't going to test them and neither are any sellers,ebay or others. More or less a crap shoot. I wonder who's injectors AM General uses?
Click to expand...

So the spec is actually stamped in the part.

If that is true, then it is actually good.
 
JMJNet said:
So the spec is actually stamped in the part.

If that is true, then it is actually good.
Click to expand...

Just because the number is there doesn't guaranty That it is made to the exact spec. Without any one keeping them honest they can pass off anything as that spec.
 
bk95td said:
Just because the number is there doesn't guaranty That it is made to the exact spec. Without any one keeping them honest they can pass off anything as that spec.
Click to expand...

That is my thought also. The challenge is not whether parts made in China or India, the challenge is more whether they are mfg-ing to the spec.

The Chinese and Indians know about spec if they give it to them correctly.
 
bk95td said:
From what I gather[may not be totally correct] there is engineering specs for injectors. All the dimensions are in that spec number. The hardness /heat treating and material specs are there also. Weather a given manufacture builds them to that exact spec is the real question. A large truck/equipment manufacture could have them tested to see if they actually are to spec. Ebay shure as hell isn't going to test them and neither are any sellers,ebay or others. More or less a crap shoot. I wonder who's injectors AM General uses?
Click to expand...

So, can you read the #'s on my injectors in the pics?...........What do they tell you?
 
The number on the injector body is the part number for the body of the injector only.
The red/orange plastic band between the 2 halves signifies that it is set for turbo pop pressure. If it had a green band or no band it would be set for N/A pop pressure.6.5 N/A and turbo use the same injector/nozzles just have different pop pressures.
This is where it really can get confusing. Marine nozzles will fit in that body. 6.2 N/A short body nozzles may also fit. New Marine injectors had a different body number from yours but the same body number as other 6.5turbo,6.5N/A and 6.2 N/A injectors. The tops [the part with the number] from the 6.2 N/A long body coarse and fine thread may fit also.
Bottom line is you really don't know what is in there for a nozzle unless you look.:???::WTF:
 
Last weekend I installed a set of injectors rebuilt with the Bosch Germany marine nozzles. They were set to 2350 psi pop. They did clatter a bit more noticeably when first installed, but a week later I can't say it's noticeably different than the injector noise from the previous set of rebuilt injectors w/ std nozzles.

It does seem to take maybe an extra 1/2 revolution (or some fraction of a second) for all cylinders to begin firing cleanly/idling smoothly. Could possibly be it takes the IP slightly longer (at starting/cranking rpm) to develop enough pressure to cleanly pop these injectors set to 2350.

My DS-4 is a rebuilt that has ~ 50 k miles on it. So far I haven't been able to discern any difference in how it starts warm - vs -cold. I've gotten the GMTD Scan Tech set in the cab, but haven't watched it a greal deal yet, beyond confirming idle fuel rate - ~ 7-8 mm3 if memory serves. Can't recall if Scan Tech can read the IP's fuel temp, but if so, I'll check that out as summer temps get warmer & see if fuel temp has any correlation to how it starts warm.

Unfortunately, I can't quantify any potential power increase from the marine nozzles. I suspect one of the previous set of injectors wasn't quite right - injector guy will check them out. Regardless, I now believe the marine nozzles can allow a bit more fuel flow (w/ nothing else changed in the IP/injection system.

Here's why:

1st reason is purely subjective - the engine feels noticeably stronger - this could easy be related to one of the previous injectors, but intuitively, it feels like more than that.

2nd reason is a bit more objective. It appears that @WOT, pulling a load, it can drive the EGT a bit higher, than before, for a given outdoor air temp (although that could certainly be from any number of issues).

The 3rd indication might well be completely objective - @WOT under a heavy load, it will now pull pre-IP fuel pressure about 1/2 psi lower than before. Could be opening the injection lines/returns etc. to R/R the injectors put some additional foreign material into the system that plugged the fuel filter(s) a little more. But I really suspect there's a little more fuel flowing.

I'll keep checking my fuel mileage every tank & post that info if it changes appreciably.
 
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Interesting Conversation at The Local Injection Shop

I went to my local injection shop last week for a set of nozzles. I mentioned the talk of the Bosch-India nozzles being low quality. He told me they have not had any problems with the Bosch-India nozzles. They have had trouble with Delphi and Stanadyne nozzles. This shop is a authorized dealer for all the brands mentioned.
Another interesting tidbit he told me is that there is counterfit Bosch-India nozzles out there. He said Bosch sent him notification and pics of the counterfits. He said some of the lazer etched insignias aren't there on the counterfits.
He also told me he won't fix any DS4 injection pumps or rebuild them. He only sells new ones because of the warrenty. He also said the gray stanadyne pmd's weren't much better than any of the rest of them. Many failures.
 
:D Maybe that's what they mean about shelf life for some parts:skep::nonod::D
 
I just read this whole thread,,, very interesting stuff in here. I read it slowly, word by word, sounding out the big words, referring back to referenced statements, I learned a lot, not enough tho, my brain hurts.
 
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