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6.5 No start, Chevy Dealer and Stanadyne Dealer Cant Figure It Out

A

AmericanLandMgt

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Location
Wilmington, NC
Hey guys you have a really informative forum. I have been looking around and havent seen anything that is an obvious fix to my problem so I figured I would get your thoughts.

Here is my problem: I Bought a 94 GMC K3500 and it ran just fine for a while after I bought it. After having no problems with it for several days it just died one day. I was low on fuel so I went and grabbed a five gallon can and put some fuel in it and it cranked fine. Next day it died again and I had only gone two miles so i knew it wasnt out of fuel. It hasnt cranked since.

Looking around online I found the PMD was the biggest problem for these things. Bought a new one, popped it on and nothing changed.

A diesel tech here in my town told me to try a CPS. Didnt help.

I thought it was the lift pump, put a new one on and ran a wire to a switch so I could turn it on and off and make sure it was on. I can crack the t- valve and poor fuel on the ground so I know its getting fuel to the IP.

At this point I figure I have to bite the bullet and put an injector pump on it. Ordered a new one and put it on. Still nothing changed.

I pulled one of the injector lines off and its not getting any fuel at all. Not even a drop. Thought maybe it was vapor locked so I took all of the lines off and turned it over. None of them are getting any fuel.

I got fed up with it and took it to the chevy place and they said I needed a new IP. I told them I just put a new one on and they insisted that it was bad, so I put the truck on the trailer, took it back to my shop, took the pump off and sent it back to where I got it from. Got my new pump in and figured I wouldnt take any chances and took the truck to the Stanadyne shop thats a few hours from my house. They put the pump on, timed it, and still no fuel to the injectors.

I spent several hours cleaning all of the grounds and chasing down any wire that I thought might be even a little bit damaged. Thought maybe it wasnt spinning fast enough so I put 2 new batteries in it. Nothing has helped.

All I can think of is that the solenoid isnt getting power and not letting fuel through? Im not sure what controls that. Its not throwing any codes so I dont know what to look for.

Sorry for the long winded first post but I was hoping to be as informative as possible. If you need any more info let me know.

Any help is very appreciated.

Thanks,

Justin
 
I know this might be a shot in the dark...but could you possibly have a clogged sock in your fuel tank??? Mine ran like a bucket of crap with one plugged sock (1 ton truck, 2 tanks). I put a new sock on and good to go. Look at that first before throwing money away and/or look for rusty fuel lines with a hole. A lot of these trucks like to rot the fuel lines up on to of the fuel tank. Thats just my opinion. Seems like you've replaced everything in the fuel system.
 
When the IP's were replaced was the same fsos(fuel shut off sol) used?

I've had a problem with the fsos fuse not making contact. With the ign. in the run position wiggle that fuse, if the fsos clicks then you know it has poor contact.

The plunger on the fsos can also be removed with no detrimental problems. There is a C clip that can be removed and the plunger comes out. The ign. will still shut the fuel off through the pmd.
 
Ive looked the truck up and down and while there is a lot of rust, the lines seeom to be in good shape. The furl shut off solenoid operates fine I pulled it out and watched it click back and forth when I turned the key. I thought there was another internal solenoid toward the back of the IP? I dont have time to fill out the checklist right now but I will tonight when I get home. Thanks for the help.
 
That first symptoms sounds like PMD but then run out of fuel can cause havoc to the fuel system.

Have you bleed the fuel line? How is the fuel filter? With this old truck, there is a heater at the bottom of fuel filter housing that is prone to leak due to aging o-ring.
This can introduced air to the system causing it to be difficult to start also. If the truck is rusting, there are chance that the fuel lines from the tank is rusted out.
The bad part is that it may not be the section that you can see.

I agree with plugged tank sock as bmxkdj suggested.

Do you have fuel at the t-valve?

May be the OPS is bad. OPS controls the LP when engine is running. So if OPS is bad, engine will not start.
For this particular part, you need a genuine ACDelco.
 
First question to be answered is if the SES light is on with the ignition on, and do you get a GP light when you turn igntion on?

Since I presume everyone hooked a scanner up to it and that it worked then the PCM would be getting power, otherwise if they couldnt connect the scanners they would tell you the PCM is dead.

In this case, I recommend you check fuel pressure at the IP itself. The "last ditch" screen in the Fuel Filter Manager (FFM) can get clogged, or the filter itself, assuming you changed that though. The drain on the T-stat housing is pre-filter. The filter and screen on the IP outlet can therefore still clog and prevent fuel to the IP. Also the return line could be plugged and IP housing pressure would get too high and cause it to not work. You should try running the truck with the IP inlet in a fresh bottle of diesel and the return line going into another bottle. Take the trucks fuel system out of the equation.

I recommend reading through this list I made, its long, and the no-start diagnostics are at the end of it, but there is a lot of pertinent information about how your truck works in the main body of the file. The no-start diagnostics has a test that will determine if the IP is even getting a signal to inject fuel. If it is then, you have a fueling issue.
 

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AmericanLandMgt said:
Hey guys you have a really informative forum. I have been looking around and havent seen anything that is an obvious fix to my problem so I figured I would get your thoughts.

Here is my problem: I Bought a 94 GMC K3500 and it ran just fine for a while after I bought it. After having no problems with it for several days it just died one day. I was low on fuel so I went and grabbed a five gallon can and put some fuel in it and it cranked fine. Next day it died again and I had only gone two miles so i knew it wasnt out of fuel. It hasnt cranked since.

Looking around online I found the PMD was the biggest problem for these things. Bought a new one, popped it on and nothing changed.

A diesel tech here in my town told me to try a CPS. Didnt help.

I thought it was the lift pump, put a new one on and ran a wire to a switch so I could turn it on and off and make sure it was on. I can crack the t- valve and poor fuel on the ground so I know its getting fuel to the IP. At this point I figure I have to bite the bullet and put an injector pump on it. Ordered a new one and put it on. Still nothing changed.

I pulled one of the injector lines off and its not getting any fuel at all. Not even a drop. Thought maybe it was vapor locked so I took all of the lines off and turned it over. None of them are getting any fuel.

I got fed up with it and took it to the chevy place and they said I needed a new IP. I told them I just put a new one on and they insisted that it was bad, so I put the truck on the trailer, took it back to my shop, took the pump off and sent it back to where I got it from. Got my new pump in and figured I wouldnt take any chances and took the truck to the Stanadyne shop thats a few hours from my house. They put the pump on, timed it, and still no fuel to the injectors.

I spent several hours cleaning all of the grounds and chasing down any wire that I thought might be even a little bit damaged. Thought maybe it wasnt spinning fast enough so I put 2 new batteries in it. Nothing has helped.

All I can think of is that the solenoid isnt getting power and not letting fuel through? Im not sure what controls that. Its not throwing any codes so I dont know what to look for.

Sorry for the long winded first post but I was hoping to be as informative as possible. If you need any more info let me know.

Any help is very appreciated.

Thanks,

Justin
Click to expand...
All you know is that fuel reaches the filter.

Was a fuel pressure test done?

Did they replace and bleed the filter on top of the housing?
Did you pull of the fuel hose on the IP inlet and check for fuel there?

What # pump was on it,and what # was it replaced with. A 94 takes originally a 5068 ,common mistake is to swap a 5522 in.

Did you swap the resistor from the old to the new PMD?
 
Last edited:
Well, interesting problem.

First a pic:

DSC04260.jpg


As Simon said, make sure you are actually getting fuel to the IP. Crack the in line with the lift pump running to confirm. If none, you're got some kind of blockage from the Filter manager to the Injector pump.

Next would be the cracking the lines at the injectors to see if there's fuel, I'm assuming there's none by your description.

Then it seems that the actual fuel solenoid Driver may be a problem, but you say that was also replaced.

ESO (fuel shut off solenoid) would have been my next guess, but you say that works.

That leaves the fuel solenoid at the rotary head. However, you replaced the pump so that should be good. That also would seem to rule out a failure of the injector pump.

Only thing that seems to be left is the optical sensor if it was swapped from the old pump to the new one.

If that's not the problem, heck, you're got something weird like the loose fuse or something really weird like a sheared pump drive...

I assume the PCM has been checked for error codes.

One last question:

Is anything changed form stock on the engine?

IE: PMD extension harness, disconnected plugs, removed parts like the egr solenoid, etc.

A bad extension harness or something mucked around with could be the problem.

Good luck finding the problem, sounds like a head scratcher.....


*Edit*

Just had a few other thoughts:

Where did you get the pump from?

Is it new or rebuilt?

A "cheap" place might just rebuild the mechanical and swap over the electric bits. Optical sensor, fuel solenoid, ESO, etc....

And what did the stanadyne dealer do to "Time" it? Did they just install it "straight up"?

Did they ever get it running? the "timing" isn't really complete until you get it running and adjust the TDCO settings.....
 
Last edited:
bison said:
What # pump was on it,and what # was it replaced with. A 94 takes originally a 5568 ,common mistake is to swap a 5122 in.
Click to expand...

Very good question. If you pullled a 5068 off and put a 5521 or other on there would be a PCM issue, although it might actually run either way.

otherwise the last 2 posts are reiterating checking fuel at the IP, but also disconnect the IP return line to collect in a bottle.

GW is right that there is no way they could have timed it without it running, but it doesnt really matter, it should run as long as the timing marks are close to start with, all explained in the file I posted. I wouldnt suspect the IP at all at this point.
 
Never assume a ecm is good just because it used to run. The fuel system is pretty much ruled out at this point unless it's the wrong ip. It should still run with the wrong ip. There is 2 power sources for the ecm. Be shure they are both live. All together now-GROUNDS GROUNDS GROUNDS
 
GM dealer is a waste of time. Don't bother them!

Sounds like you plugged the fuel filter and air locked the IP. I agree with the above of checking for fuel at the IP and see what is coming out of it during cranking.

Start over. Everything is suspect at this point including new parts.

Do you have 100 RPM or more while cranking and is the front pulley turning? (Aka enough cranking speed and not a busted crank.)

Check to make sure you have fuel to the ip.
SES light as stated above. Pull codes with a paper clip.
Then run through the extensive IP electrical check out posted in this PDF found in here:
http://www.thetruckstop.us/forum/showthread.php?26581
 
Even they can be confused. I had a Stanadyne dealer check mine out once too, and they said they could figure it out, this was after the stealership had it for a month. So I told them what to replace and got it running, ultimately probably air in the IP and replacing lines and the IP got rid of the issue. Air in the fuel line will wreak havoc.
 
Problem: Explain your problem in concise language Cranks but wont fire. No fuel to injectors.
Demographics: tell us about your truck and your ambient conditions:

- Year:1994
- Truck model and class k3500
- Automatic or Standard auto
- Mileage: (indicate miles or km)240000 miles
- Replaced parts and mods LP, PMD, IP, CPS, OPS
- Model: ‘S’ or ‘F’ engine, NA or Turbo, EGR?Turbo not sure about s or f
- Ambient outside temp: (indicate *C or *F)70 f
- What fuel are you using? #1 Diesel
- What fuel additives are you using? none
- Where are you located? wilmington nc
General maintenance: inspect and evaluate the condition of each. When were they last changed?
- Air filter new
- Fuel filter new
- CDR Valve?unkown
- Coolant – last flushed/replaced at unknown
- Oil – synthetic/regular, changed at fairly recently
- Batteries – state of charge, matched set, brand new
- Battery cables and grounds removed cleanded tightened
- Glow Plugs - how many miles on them? new What type? autolite
- Injectors - last changed at unkown

History: (Describe how the problem first appeared.)
- What were you doing when it happened? Driving slowly in a field
- How was the truck running fine before this problem appeared? running fine
- Has this problem ever happened before? just bought the truck so I dont know
- Describe any related factors that might be part of the problem. no fuel to injectors
- Have you checked for DTC (Diagnostic Trouble Codes)? yes. Only codes it shows is one for the transmission line pressure
Diagnostics:

1] Starting:
1a] Does the engine start? no
1b] Does the engine crank over? yes
1c] Are your batteries fully charged?yes
1d] Have you removed, cleaned, and tightened all battery connections? yes
1e] Does your Wait to Start light come on for a time? How long? yes, a few seconds
1f] Does your glow plug light come on?For how long? thought it was the same light?
1g] Do you see smoke from the exhaust while cranking? What color?none
1h] Does the Service Engine Light Glow during Start/bulb check? yes
2] Fuel Issues (if not running):
2a] Can you hear your lift pump working? yes
2b] Do you get a steady flow of fuel from the water drain (T-handle) ?yes
2c] Loosen the inlet line from the IP – is fuel coming out (Lift Pump on)?yes
2d] Loosen an injector line and crank the engine - does fuel come out? none
2e] Do you hear a vacuum (hiss) when you remove the fuel cap? yes
3] PMD / IP Issues
3a] Location of PMD (on pump, on intake, remote mounted) stock on pump
3b] Condition of Extension harness (if used) Vendor or Homemade? none
3c] Condition of grounds / ground wires to IP / PMD. Check Harness. checked and double checked
3d] PMD Make: stanadyne
3e] PMD Age: brand new

List and describe any other factors which are not addressed in this checklist. We can’t see, hear, smell, or touch your truck, so the more descriptive information you can give, the more likely it is that somebody can assist you.

All I can really say is that the injectors are not getting any fuel. I have cleaned all the grounds, and replaced justa bout anything that I think it could be.
 
I posted the check list in case there is any additional info on the list that I didnt bring up. The one thing that makes me wonder is the question about the wait to start light and the glow plug light. I only see a wait to start light. I didnt even know there was a seperate light for the glow plugs.

As far as where I got the pump from. I got it from Pensacola Diesel. It was pretty inexpensive so they might have switched some electronics over from older pumps. I thought it might have been so I sent it back and they sent me another pump. It isnt throwing any codes or anything though so I dont think the pump is the problem.

I got your advise about the possibility of an air leak in the fuel lines or a clogged sock so I got a five gallon bucket of fuel and put a rubber hose from the LP straight into it. I also did a pretty thorough check of the lines from the IP to the LP. The same thing is happening. I am going to look a little closer at the fuel lines but i dont see any bubbles or anything in the fuel coming out of the IP return line.

Something I did notice...After I crank on it for a while I can twist the vent on the air cleaner and get a little puff of air...That didnt make since to me at all. I thought it would be full of fuel and would spit out fuel if anything. Any thoughts?

Where are the power connections to the ecm? I would be interested int testing the ecm because I havent really done any trouble shooting on it at all. No body seemed to think that was the problem but I sure would like to check it out. I checked all the fuses, Even ohmed them with a meter to make sure nothing was wrong with them but other than that Im not sure what to check for the computer.

Thanks for all the help guys, sorry it took so long to reply.

Justin
 
Yeah I got the model off the old pump. Havent gotten to check under the manifold on the new one yet.

Model # DB2831-5288
Serial # 27090 12558156

Shouldnt the model number start with DS4?
 
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