Clutch problems, advice needed!

[doober]

The master cylinder should have came with some bleeding instructions? I went by the instructions and bled the master cylinder outside the truck. I then put the master cylinder in the truck and bled it via. the slave cylinder. I did have alittle bit of slop and I drove it and in about a week all the air must have worked its way out. Just wondering if you bled it outside the truck?

 

[jrsavoie]

I've never figured out what was wrong with good old fashioned mechanical linkage

 

[chevyCowboy]

the only other thing you can try is use and oil can and a piece of small hose and pull the line at the slave and pump the oil back up the syst and fill the slave as best you can iv done this on a truck before PITA

 

[Slim Shady]

I've never figured out what was wrong with good old fashioned mechanical linkage

It requires maintenance, and lasts to long, no parts to sell, Realistically it is the complex mechanical linkage, running a plastic line is much easier than making brackets and metal rods.

 

[mr_goodwrench_06]

There were no instructions on how to bleed the master. I simply mounted it and filled it and fluid poured out the bottom, then I installed the factory line.

This is really frusterating. I tried to drive it today and had to start in gear all the time. It's not getting better on it's own, that's for sure. LOL I pulled the allen plug out of the slave today and let fluid pour out for a while thinking this would purge some of the air out, but no dice. I'm thinking of buying the line that connects the master to the slave just to make it a clean sweep on the parts. That way I can't blame this on anything other than my failure to bleed a simple hydraulic system. I'm almost to the point of bringing it to a shop to do it!

Thanks everyone...

Bill

 

[Slim Shady]

There were no instructions on how to bleed the master. I simply mounted it and filled it and fluid poured out the bottom, then I installed the factory line.

This is really frusterating. I tried to drive it today and had to start in gear all the time. It's not getting better on it's own, that's for sure. LOL I pulled the allen plug out of the slave today and let fluid pour out for a while thinking this would purge some of the air out, but no dice. I'm thinking of buying the line that connects the master to the slave just to make it a clean sweep on the parts. That way I can't blame this on anything other than my failure to bleed a simple hydraulic system. I'm almost to the point of bringing it to a shop to do it!

Thanks everyone...



Reply

I have a manual trans and went through he same thing, I had to bench bleed my slave cylinder, and clutch master cylinder and still had air problems.

Have you tried leaving the cap off of the clutch master cylinder and letting the slave cylinder bleed out by gravity. Are you sure the throw out fork pivot ball is intact? A worn out throw out arm pivot will cause the same problem. There is a grease fitting directly under the case in the webbing. close to the throw out opening,

 

[chevyCowboy]

There were no instructions on how to bleed the master. I simply mounted it and filled it and fluid poured out the bottom, then I installed the factory line.

This is really frusterating. I tried to drive it today and had to start in gear all the time. It's not getting better on it's own, that's for sure. LOL I pulled the allen plug out of the slave today and let fluid pour out for a while thinking this would purge some of the air out, but no dice. I'm thinking of buying the line that connects the master to the slave just to make it a clean sweep on the parts. That way I can't blame this on anything other than my failure to bleed a simple hydraulic system. I'm almost to the point of bringing it to a shop to do it!

Thanks everyone...



Reply

I have a manual trans and went through he same thing, I had to bench bleed my slave cylinder, and clutch master cylinder and still had air problems.

Have you tried leaving the cap off of the clutch master cylinder and letting the slave cylinder bleed out by gravity. Are you sure the throw out fork pivot ball is intact? A worn out throw out arm pivot will cause the same problem. There is a grease fitting directly under the case in the webbing. close to the throw out opening,

good call slim i had that very same problem with a nv3500 cant believe i didnt remember that had to put a clutch in and then put tranny back up with new clutch couldnt get bled tried every thing and all new parts. some onetold me that it might be the fork so droped tranny again took tranny to certified transmition had them look and the clutch fork and piviot ended up haveing to buy a new fork and pivot

 

[Slim Shady]

good call slim i had that very same problem with a nv3500 cant believe i didnt remember that had to put a clutch in and then put tranny back up with new clutch couldnt get bled tried every thing and all new parts. some onetold me that it might be the fork so droped tranny again took tranny to certified transmition had them look and the clutch fork and piviot ended up haveing to buy a new fork and pivot

Only cause I have been there, mine was worn out so badly my clutch wouldn't disengage, did all of the same things and finally replaced the clutch and found pivot arm ball and the pivot arm were JUNK. AHEM still hurts to think about it six years later.

 

[bison]

I cant figgure out why you guys find it so hard to bleed a simple system like that.
by its design it should bleed itself.
IMO with the normally retracted piston in the master cyl,the fluid tank is open to the slave cyl and fluid should gravitate down to it,replacing the air.
If it wont do that,then the cup on the M cyl piston is covering the inlet orifice in the barrel.
cause: the weight of the pedal on the pushrod pushes the piston slightly forward,blocking the inlet orifice or a swollen cup extending over the orifice(replace cup or master cyl.)
Or a Weak pedal return spring or worn pivot pin/bushings.
quik fix:lift the pedal all the way up to let the piston bottom out before each down ward stroke to bleed,or block the pedal up and let it gravity bleed

 

[Slim Shady]

I cant figgure out why you guys find it so hard to bleed a simple system like that.
by its design it should bleed itself.
IMO with the normally retracted piston in the master cyl,the fluid tank is open to the slave cyl and fluid should gravitate down to it,replacing the air.
If it wont do that,then the cup on the M cyl piston is covering the inlet orifice in the barrel.
cause: the weight of the pedal on the pushrod pushes the piston slightly forward,blocking the inlet orifice or a swollen cup extending over the orifice(replace cup or master cyl.)
Or a Weak pedal return spring or worn pivot pin/bushings.
quik fix:lift the pedal all the way up to let the piston bottom out before each down ward stroke to bleed,or block the pedal up and let it gravity bleed

Real life sometimes does not work like it is supposed to : for what ever reason. could be the truck was not level. dirt spec manufacturing variation, operator error. Like I said life is not exact. Just my past experience and I guess after thirty years of working on cars I learned to accept things don't always go as planned.

 

[mr_goodwrench_06]

I've tried to gravity bleed it and fluid will pour out at a very rapid rate so there isn't a problem with anything blocking any holes. The pedal comes all the way up every time, so that isn't the problem. I hate like hell to remove this tranny again to inspect the piviot fork and ball, but it looks like it may be coming to that real quick here. Of course I'm broke now due to Christmas, so even if I find a broken part, I don't know if I can buy a new one. LOL

Does anyone know how much travel the slave should have? If I measure the travel, shouldn't that tell me if it's the hydraulic system that's to blame?

Thanks for the continued support and ideas everyone...

Bill

 

[bison]

Real life sometimes does not work like it is supposed to : for what ever reason. could be the truck was not level. dirt spec manufacturing variation, operator error. Like I said life is not exact. Just my past experience and I guess after thirty years of working on cars I learned to accept things don't always go as planned.

I hear ye,been there done that.
In the end its often simple,one just was'nt thinking straight:rolleyes5:

 

[SmithvilleD]

After reading this thread, I wish I'd chopped my old hydraulic line in half at the plastic tubing portion over the tranny. To see what the ID was.

Could be that V shape is pointed enough that an air bubble tends to want to stay at the top there & not easily head downhill the little bit before the line heads up again to the master cyl/reservoir.

Wouldn't expect that in a small ID line, but that black nylon (or whatever material) portion of the line might be big enough ID that gravity or forced bleeding can't always force a bubble past that point.

 

[bison]

I've tried to gravity bleed it and fluid will pour out at a very rapid rate so there isn't a problem with anything blocking any holes. The pedal comes all the way up every time, so that isn't the problem. I hate like hell to remove this tranny again to inspect the piviot fork and ball, but it looks like it may be coming to that real quick here. Of course I'm broke now due to Christmas, so even if I find a broken part, I don't know if I can buy a new one. LOL


Does anyone know how much travel the slave should have? If I measure the travel, shouldn't that tell me if it's the hydraulic system that's to blame?

Thanks for the continued support and ideas everyone...

Bill

measure both the slave rod and the distance to the fork(play removed) from the bell housing.Subtracting the 2 measurements from each other will tell you how much travel is left in the slave.If there aint enough to disengage the clutch you can get by by using a 3/4 " longer push rod(made from a bolt with the head cut off).I done that on a truck i had ,clutch worked fine after that.
Like others said, prob worn fork seat and pivot ball.

 

[mr_goodwrench_06]

!!!!!!!

So, I drove it to town today to do some Christmas shopping. I decided to try and get it into a shop just for fun. I gave them the rundown and they brought the truck in to bleed it.

Guy comes out 20 minutes later and says they can't bleed it any better than I did. He figures the pressure plate is shot. I almost cry and then pay them $30.00 for their time.

I get in the truck and strart it in geart like I have been. Shift to third and the pedal seems different...try 4th and it goes in no problem! Drive it around town for a few hours and it seems that it's almost perfect now!!!

I don't get it and I don't care. It works, didn't cost me a fortune and I'm happy!

MERRY CHRISTMAS EVERYONE!!!!!!
Holiday wishes and blessings to all who tried to help.

Bill

 

[chevyCowboy]

:smile5:most have been one last air bubble that finally came to the top
glad to hear you got your problem fixed

 

[Odlaw]

In regards to that grease fitting for the fork and pivot ball - it only takes less than half a pump on a grease gun. If you go squeezing two or three pumps, soon you will be asking us why your clutch is slipping.....

Even though this system seems really simple, the three tranny shops I talked to before my clutch job said the same thing - these trucks are a pain to bleed. I think it has something to do with the location of the bleeder screw on the slave and that weird "V" in the plastic line that appears to be higher than the slave cylinder on some trucks.....which makes one wonder if gravity bleeding would even work.

In regards to the bleeding the master on the bench (like and old brake master cylinder) - I installed seven master cylinders (two different brands) and none of them said to bench bleed them....and if you look at the design, as long as there is fluid in the reservoir, it will bleed itself.

Glad you got her fixed.
Smitty

 

[Odlaw]

That should have been "higher than the master cylinder"

my bad

 

[Anubis]

so why doesn't somebody replace the clutch line with steel brake tube with a short piece of braided stainless hose either near the MC or the SC (for easy access) ....... my understanding of this is the size of the tube (as in it can be bigger) is not as important as matching the diameter of the pistons in the master and slave.........

anyways the clutch line rusted out on my FJ60 so I replaced it with 36" of braided stainless hose....

 

[packratt]

I don't know about the early model master and slave cylinder setup, but the later setup has a fuel line type quick release at the slave cylinder and a specialty fitting at the master cylinder. Not condusive to custom lines.