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cold air intake=less boost?

john65td

john65td

Addicted to boost
Messages
323
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1
Location
Cassadaga New york
i had the ssd style intake and i wanted to box it off but i hit the battery so i put the stock elbow back on and connected the ssd intake to it now the filter sit up on the fender and boxed it off like the afe style system. now i have less boost at crusing speeds and over all 2 or 3 psi less boost whats goin on here i thought a cold air intake was good for the truck or did i do something wrong?
 
Well first you don't have a cold air intake, there's nothing cold about that air. Second evenif you were drawing air from a hole in the hood the cooler air does not mean anything to your boost PSI. That is a function of your wastegaste settings, intake restrictions, and exhaust restrictions. I would say you lost boost because you increased the restrictions on the intake side.
 
i boxed it off and sealed it its cooler air than the ssd intake setup i would think? i didnt think the eblow would restrict it that much maybe the old setup was better
 
even though you "boxed it in" as you call it, like many are saying, it may be doing more damage than good.

Firstly, Boost pressure is generated by not only how must exhaust is flowing thorugh the exhaust housing and wastegate position, but also(like stated) how easily the air can be pulled in. The easier the turbocharger can work, the more efficiently it will operate. If you have one of those cone style filters on there, you are actually reducing your flow. the stock intake elbow is not a very good choice for air flow. You need to have very smooth and pronounced bends in it with no areas for restriction(like the flexible part that turns into an oval)

Second, the AFE style "box in" does not make a cold air intake. Its nothing more than a heat shield that prevents hot engine air from entering the intake stream. Though this becomes completly useless when the heat shield heats up as now your cold air is taking on the heat from the shield. Then of course there is the fact that you have no idea if this "box" you made is actually properly sealing against the hood of the truck, again rendering the "heat shield" ineffective.
 
Hey Big Blue, which cone style are you referring to? The dual cone from SSD flows very nice (has the inverted cone on the end). It is a night and day difference from the flat panel style stock filter....not sure about the big nasty round stock filter - I hear they flow pretty good.
Smitty
 
Make sure all plumbing connections are leak free and the air path is not restricted......Never heard anyone losing 3-4 psi from a heat shield or factory elbow.


2 Cents
 
Brooklyn Tow said:
Make sure all plumbing connections are leak free and the air path is not restricted......Never heard anyone losing 3-4 psi from a heat shield or factory elbow.


2 Cents
Click to expand...

I agree. Give it a test run when the engine is cold to be sure, before the engine bay is heatsoaked. IF you still don't have the boost, there is a restriction. Any black smoke? Did you take the wrapper off the new filter? :) Do you have a collapsed fender tunnel where it draws its air from?

Did you disturb your manual boost control?
 
Odlaw said:
Hey Big Blue, which cone style are you referring to? The dual cone from SSD flows very nice (has the inverted cone on the end). It is a night and day difference from the flat panel style stock filter....not sure about the big nasty round stock filter - I hear they flow pretty good.
Smitty
Click to expand...

My mistake. My truck has the huge 97+ round filter. Didn't hit me that we where talking about those stupid flat filters. I would imagine that compared to the flat filters the cone style filters would make a huge difference over stock, but compared to to the 97+ airbox with that huge filter, those cone ones are almost half the size of the stocker.

If you ask me, its really all about the size of the filter. The bigger the filter, the more area there is that can be used to draw air in and clean it. The way I like to explain it to people is if your engine is drawing in 300cfm though a filter that has a suface area of 150 cubic feet, your drawing in and filtering out 2cfm in a 1 cubic foot area. Now, if you purchase one of these aftermarket filters, USUALLY they come as these smaller "cone style" ones that I believe you are describing. These cone ones are literally half the size(again 97+ airbox) of the stock filter. So now, you have a filter that has a surface area of 75 cubic feet. Despite increased flow "ratings", the engine is still calling for 300cfm or air. Now, your filter has to draw in and filter 4cfm of air per 1 cubic foot. Get where I'm coming from?

After the axle swap I plan on doing a full writeup and really show people how an air cleaner system should be setup based on a number of designs I have seem from tractors, semi's and generally other machines that draw large volumes of air and still require good filtration. Essentially, if you really want a good air cleaner system, it needs to be wide open with pronounced and free flowing bends in them to ensure the best flow inside the tube, and a rather oversized filter with high filtration capabillities to filter out the crap that shouldn't be entering the engine in the first place. Thats my standpoint on the subject.
 
BigBlueChevy said:
My mistake. My truck has the huge 97+ round filter. Didn't hit me that we where talking about those stupid flat filters. I would imagine that compared to the flat filters the cone style filters would make a huge difference over stock, but compared to to the 97+ airbox with that huge filter, those cone ones are almost half the size of the stocker.

If you ask me, its really all about the size of the filter. The bigger the filter, the more area there is that can be used to draw air in and clean it. The way I like to explain it to people is if your engine is drawing in 300cfm though a filter that has a suface area of 150 cubic feet, your drawing in and filtering out 2cfm in a 1 cubic foot area. Now, if you purchase one of these aftermarket filters, USUALLY they come as these smaller "cone style" ones that I believe you are describing. These cone ones are literally half the size(again 97+ airbox) of the stock filter. So now, you have a filter that has a surface area of 75 cubic feet. Despite increased flow "ratings", the engine is still calling for 300cfm or air. Now, your filter has to draw in and filter 4cfm of air per 1 cubic foot. Get where I'm coming from?

After the axle swap I plan on doing a full writeup and really show people how an air cleaner system should be setup based on a number of designs I have seem from tractors, semi's and generally other machines that draw large volumes of air and still require good filtration. Essentially, if you really want a good air cleaner system, it needs to be wide open with pronounced and free flowing bends in them to ensure the best flow inside the tube, and a rather oversized filter with high filtration capabillities to filter out the crap that shouldn't be entering the engine in the first place. Thats my standpoint on the subject.
Click to expand...

Thanks for clarifying. Yeah, I've got a buddy with a 97 6.5 and he has the replacement filter from AFE - big friggin thing! - it's just a drop in for the factory round filter.
One difference in the SSD filter, that I haven't seen on other cone styles is that it has an second, inverted cone filter in the end - not just capped off like the others I've seen. Actually has a lot of filter surface area.

Thanks again....looking forward to your write-up.
Smitty
 
S&B filter has the inverted center filter in the cone, Mine is 9 inches IIRC.
I went back to the stock flat panel sucking from the fender, after I relieved some radius air resistance and cut the edges around the signal lights to improve flow. I get better mileage and don't have to clean the SOB again.
 
From my experience it is almost impossible to make a true cold air intake without doing a lot of fab work and relocating the battery. However volume can make up for having slightly elevated preturbo intake temps. I took the aFe stage 2 intake system and cut it so it sits closer to the fender hole, after that I changed the filter from aFe to a larger S&B unit. The owner of the truck even added a functioning air scoop to the side of the fender to allow in as fresh of air as possible. This system gives the truck all the air it will ever need. If you want to cool the intake charge even more I would recommend a Snow water injection system.
 

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6.5quest said:
From my experience it is almost impossible to make a true cold air intake without doing a lot of fab work and relocating the battery. However volume can make up for having slightly elevated preturbo intake temps. I took the aFe stage 2 intake system and cut it so it sits closer to the fender hole, after that I changed the filter from aFe to a larger S&B unit. The owner of the truck even added a functioning air scoop to the side of the fender to allow in as fresh of air as possible. This system gives the truck all the air it will ever need. If you want to cool the intake charge even more I would recommend a Snow water injection system.
Click to expand...


Damn Ian thats one hell of an engine bay!!!:eek: Check out the piping on that beast! You ever consider an ATT lol, 350hp may not be to far off!

Back on track I'll definatly have to agree with you on the fabricating part, which is probubly why the DMAX has its air intake / battery setup the way it is. But, the intake I plan on doing is going to have fabrication involved in it anyway):h And the battery isn't going to have to be relocated...):h:eek:
 
BigBlueChevy said:
Damn Ian thats one hell of an engine bay!!!:eek: Check out the piping on that beast! You ever consider an ATT lol, 350hp may not be to far off!

Back on track I'll definatly have to agree with you on the fabricating part, which is probubly why the DMAX has its air intake / battery setup the way it is. But, the intake I plan on doing is going to have fabrication involved in it anyway):h And the battery isn't going to have to be relocated...):h:eek:
Click to expand...

BBD, you do know there is a "6.5 Performance" forum on this board where Ian has been doing a super build now for a while now, right?

I have been wanting to cut a fender scoop for a few years now. Now That I have my scanner set up to monitor EGT's, I think I will do it next year to see what differences it makes.

My largest gripe with the factory setup is that it tunnels its air right in the path that absorbs all the fan wash... That side of the truck is ALWAYS toasty warm. If the air is coming in 4" away from the filter via the fender, it has no choice but to be cooler I would think.

Ian, Heath was supposedly making up a cold air intake a year or so back, maybe longer.... Any info on this or did he abort?
 
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