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Replacement turbo

Matt Bachand said:
I find it very hard to believe that something that reaches 1000df + can hold 'moisture' enough to rot away. All that moisture should be evaporated off in a hurry unless the vehicle sits alot??
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Lost my high $$$ ceramic coated crossover this way, now I just have unwrapped steel x over, mine was a daily driver also, I put 2 cans of hi-temp paint on the wrap also hoping to seal out the moisture, to no avail, rotten to the core in less than 3 years, I was advised to not wrap by a few, but I figured by sealing with hi-temp paint it would not rot I was wrong.
 
Turbine Doc said:
Lost my high $$$ ceramic coated crossover this way, now I just have unwrapped steel x over, mine was a daily driver also, I put 2 cans of hi-temp paint on the wrap also hoping to seal out the moisture, to no avail, rotten to the core in less than 3 years, I was advised to not wrap by a few, but I figured by sealing with hi-temp paint it would not rot I was wrong.
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LOL, i was thinking that too w/the high temp paint...

Well, I learned to never wrap my manifolds/exhaust parts. :)
 
Turbine Doc said:
Lost my high $$$ ceramic coated crossover this way, now I just have unwrapped steel x over, mine was a daily driver also, I put 2 cans of hi-temp paint on the wrap also hoping to seal out the moisture, to no avail, rotten to the core in less than 3 years, I was advised to not wrap by a few, but I figured by sealing with hi-temp paint it would not rot I was wrong.
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Was the ceramic coated crossover 304 stainless, or aluminized steel?
 
SmithvilleD said:
Was the ceramic coated crossover 304 stainless, or aluminized steel?
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Whatever Kennedy was selling but IIRC aluminized steel then ceramic over that. I don't believe the heat lost across it is significant, I ran wrapped when new vs just plain steel when I replaced it and noticed no change either way with my GM-8, have not run a wrapped crossover on the ATT to know if it would help it much.
 
While it's a different heat/exhaust energy scenario, I know somebody that ran a bigger, single turbo Mustang 351W. He could tell some difference in boost threshold, specifically in lower speed, throttle roll-in.

The thought was a full throttle, there is such an excess of turbine drive heat/energy, retaining additional heat energy in the exhaust at that part of the operational range didn't really matter - unless it was to limit heat exposure or temp levels for other components.

The biggest energy loss out of the pipes is probably at the highest EGT's - biggest delta temp inside/outside pipe. But I think retaining all available heat/energy matters more when there isn't a big excess of exhaust energy & you're trying to maintain the best possible boost threshold when needing to spin up these bigger, better flowing turbines.

I'll prolly still try wrapping my crossover, partially to see if I can note any difference. Seeing GM put a double-walled pipe there years before you saw double-walled pipe broadly used exh manifold to catcon's to get them lit earlier. This wouldn't necessarily have to be the reason GM used that pipe, but it piques my curiosity enough to try wrapping my stainless & coated crossover. Fortunately when I coated it myself, it's not a huge $ outlay if it does fail. These header wrap/corrosion stories are specifically why I got that in stainless - come to think of it, 304 stainless is a little slower at heat transfer also.

The ceramic/Al coatings like Cermakrome only get/maintain their best corrosion resistance after they're polished. And I don't have a big vibratory polisher or some other method to polish the inside of the crossover tube after the coating is applied & heat cured. I think those coating's corrosion protection is more or less the same protective oxidation layer mechanism as that forms on polished aluminum, that sort of "seals" deeper levels of metal from exposure.
 
Gm used double wall pipe to lessen radiant heat transfer to the surrounding components not to retain exhaust energy. At least this what the gm engineers told me when I was in the dealership 20 years ago.

I worked at the dealer for 8years.
 
Couldn't argue w/ that being the GM reason.

The guy w/ the single turbo Mustang has fairly high resolution datalogging (5-7 reads of all the sensors recorded, per second). Looking at something like 16 channels of data - 8 alone just reading each exh port's EGT. I've seen a fair amount of the data and it's very compelling. He logs every 1/4 mile run & a surprising amount of street driving.

Pretty hard to argue against it when you can watch rolling similtaneous graphs of TPS, rpm, boost, IAT, mass airflow, EGT's, & timing/advance (if memory serves - can't recall if he could see knock sensor activity?) with a datapoint every 0.2 seconds. Being able to disect data like that can really help/debunk what does or doesn't work. I almost said "helps speed understanding what works", but there are times when you see better results but still can't explain why - no doubt there's some factor you're just not taking into account yet.

Ambient air temps varied the thermal wrap benefits some, but he could either run the next size bigger trim/size Garrett comp wheel (& maintain the same boost threshold), or keep the turbo combination the same & have 200-300 rpm lower boost threshold. Being able to read/log turbo shaft speed via the Garrett kit/gauge might be useful data also -

http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbobygarrett/products/Accessories_continue_speed_sensor.html

The overall comparisons of gasser turbo - vs - diesel turbo applications can get a little confounding. As a general rule, the gassers are dealing w/ a wider range of mass airflows - from rpm range & throttling - for a given level of max boost psi. Throttling at idle limits gasser mass airflows going in as compared w/ diesels, but they've got higher baseline/idle/off idle EGT's.
 
Just my 2cents I had a set of hooker headers cerama coated because of the so called rust protection. Didn't last 6 months before it started rusting sent them back under warranty and had them recoated and same thing in another 6 months. I don't put much faith in cerama coating now.
 
Maybe I need to make a new post for this next question. The funny thing is I just sat down to post it and saw this one. It is ATT associated thought.

I know Wyatt had the same question. My question is as follows: Say you're out of town on a trip and the turbo dies for one reason or another, obviously there will not be any GM dealers stocking the new ATT. If I keep my GM-X will I be able to bolt it right back until I get my replacement ATT? I know there are some mods to get the ATT in I'm just not sure if the mods are to the ATT to make it work w/ our trucks or to the truck itself.
 
Yup it would bolt rite back on, it was one of the criteria I put to Slim when he asked me to help prove the concept, oil drain tube gets cut with ATT install, but easily repositioned for GM turbo use, and the outlat tube that goes between turbo & intake with ATT will also work on GM type turbo, it really is IMO the best option for the 6.5. The performance you are after is there, and it's about a simple and reversable swap as one would hope to have to do.
 
Rodd said:
Maybe I need to make a new post for this next question. The funny thing is I just sat down to post it and saw this one. It is ATT associated thought.

I know Wyatt had the same question. My question is as follows: Say you're out of town on a trip and the turbo dies for one reason or another, obviously there will not be any GM dealers stocking the new ATT. If I keep my GM-X will I be able to bolt it right back until I get my replacement ATT? I know there are some mods to get the ATT in I'm just not sure if the mods are to the ATT to make it work w/ our trucks or to the truck itself.
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Rodd,

That's a legitimate question, but I would think that the chances of a turbo failure on the road are really pretty minuscule, no?

I certainly don't plan to carry a spare around.

-Rob :)
 
I did for a while, but traded it for a Browing Hi-Power once I got confidence in it. and remember truck will run with no turbo spinning, it just becomes an overfueled 6.2 then, just keep off the heavy throttle so you aren't making lots of black smoke and it will get you to where you need to be.
 
Rodd said:
Maybe I need to make a new post for this next question. The funny thing is I just sat down to post it and saw this one. It is ATT associated thought.

I know Wyatt had the same question. My question is as follows: Say you're out of town on a trip and the turbo dies for one reason or another, obviously there will not be any GM dealers stocking the new ATT. If I keep my GM-X will I be able to bolt it right back until I get my replacement ATT? I know there are some mods to get the ATT in I'm just not sure if the mods are to the ATT to make it work w/ our trucks or to the truck itself.
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The question is legitimate, I set out to put together a kit that would allow us as 6.5 people to go backwards, replace the factory equipment if the modification (new turbo) was not to spec. Turbine Doc was the second person besides myself to run one. He was the test bed and was truly critiquing how the kit was made, durability, ease of installation and if the kit could go backwards to the factory gm turbo without having to buy parts to do so. So he is not an easy person to please when it comes to his truck, trust me. I also do not expect the turbo to fail from anything other than lack of oil or forgein objects in the openinng. These are built tough , I have had one apart to see the pieces and have also shown Turbine Doc the pieces and how robust they are made. OIL or LACK of will kill them, that is why everything is supplied, including installation instructions with pictures.

The turbo was designed from the start to be a replacement and not compromise the trucks use of factory parts. Nothing worse than making your truck a one of a kind and needing a part somewhere on a Sunday night after hours. :mad2: Then you beat yourself to death for buying that part, well you know the rest.

The turbo was designed by myself and Hank1948, tested, then street tested outside the company by Turbine Doc, (talk about a critique) sheez. Matuva was the very first customer and he has since continued to be a strong advocate for the turbo, and a good friend who's comments and suggestions I value. THIS IS NOT a one man project this is a DTR project, without the generosity and support of Nick, Unit453 A-Team Turbo would not have a home. So lots of people made this work, a true group project, Sorry for the rant,
 
Slim Shady said:
The question is legitimate, I set out to put together a kit that would allow us as 6.5 people to go backwards, replace the factory equipment if the modification (new turbo) was not to spec. Turbine Doc was the second person besides myself to run one. He was the test bed and was truly critiquing how the kit was made, durability, ease of installation and if the kit could go backwards to the factory gm turbo without having to buy parts to do so. So he is not an easy person to please when it comes to his truck, trust me. I also do not expect the turbo to fail from anything other than lack of oil or forgein objects in the openinng. These are built tough , I have had one apart to see the pieces and have also shown Turbine Doc the pieces and how robust they are made. OIL or LACK of will kill them, that is why everything is supplied, including installation instructions with pictures.

The turbo was designed from the start to be a replacement and not compromise the trucks use of factory parts. Nothing worse than making your truck a one of a kind and needing a part somewhere on a Sunday night after hours. :mad2: Then you beat yourself to death for buying that part, well you know the rest.

The turbo was designed by myself and Hank1948, tested, then street tested outside the company by Turbine Doc, (talk about a critique) sheez. Matuva was the very first customer and he has since continued to be a strong advocate for the turbo, and a good friend who's comments and suggestions I value. THIS IS NOT a one man project this is a DTR project, without the generosity and support of Nick, Unit453 A-Team Turbo would not have a home. So lots of people made this work, a true group project, Sorry for the rant,
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Slim,

I'm not implying that the turbo is in any way made w/ inferior parts. I actually want one. My only concern is when I'm on the road away from home on a trip. I think you answered my question. Basically the answer is if you keep your gm-x it can be reinstalled if the ATT dies for whatever reason.
 
Rodd said:
Slim,

I'm not implying that the turbo is in any way made w/ inferior parts. I actually want one. My only concern is when I'm on the road away from home on a trip. I think you answered my question. Basically the answer is if you keep your gm-x it can be reinstalled if the ATT dies for whatever reason.
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No offense taken, just wanted to let people know that the turbo and kit is a good solid buy. You can go back to a factory turbo at any time and not have to refit anything.
 
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