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6.2/6.5 assembly tips
- Thread starter Missy Good Wench
- Start date
Missy Good Wench
Wild Blonde from Cloud Mt
Here are more good pix
Another tid bit to keep you safe.
The torque spec for the connecting rods is 48 Ft. pounds
I do it this way, tighten snug with 3/8 wratchet during assembly of rods and pistons.
After all 8 are in I then proceed. First take the torque to about 30lbs then on to about 45 lbs finally I pull to 50lbs and hold there.
My rule is this, if the torque will not stabilize at 50 and the nut keeps wanting to move I replace the nut and bolt.
The hardware in the bottom end of these is not at all bad, but there is certainly better stuff out there and its not all that spendy.
Bottom line, if you have a bolt thats getting tweeky, toss it.
I have seen a few 6.2/6.5 engines that have lost bolts.
ITS UGLY, take my word for it
The mains generally will pull up just fine at the spec (12mm bolts 110 inner,100 outers)
Many folks are using stud kits on the outers. If the block is not cracked I still am sold on process of installing the Lock and stitch inserts.
These inserts take away all the worry of cracking the outer holes and the webs.
MGW
Another tid bit to keep you safe.
The torque spec for the connecting rods is 48 Ft. pounds
I do it this way, tighten snug with 3/8 wratchet during assembly of rods and pistons.
After all 8 are in I then proceed. First take the torque to about 30lbs then on to about 45 lbs finally I pull to 50lbs and hold there.
My rule is this, if the torque will not stabilize at 50 and the nut keeps wanting to move I replace the nut and bolt.
The hardware in the bottom end of these is not at all bad, but there is certainly better stuff out there and its not all that spendy.
Bottom line, if you have a bolt thats getting tweeky, toss it.
I have seen a few 6.2/6.5 engines that have lost bolts.
ITS UGLY, take my word for it
The mains generally will pull up just fine at the spec (12mm bolts 110 inner,100 outers)
Many folks are using stud kits on the outers. If the block is not cracked I still am sold on process of installing the Lock and stitch inserts.
These inserts take away all the worry of cracking the outer holes and the webs.
MGW
Attachments
Last edited:
3500GMC
What T F, over
Thanks for the update.:thumbsup:
Lookin' good. Did you stagger the oil ring rails or just align them together? I did see the oil ring seperator noted.
Are you sticking to a certain piston to bore clearance?
Lookin' good. Did you stagger the oil ring rails or just align them together? I did see the oil ring seperator noted.
Are you sticking to a certain piston to bore clearance?
Missy Good Wench
Wild Blonde from Cloud Mt
The usual compliment that comes with these engines is a cast oil ring with a coil type expander. (TWO PIECE)
Not quite the same as a BBC with the two rails and the expander.
Definately would place one rail at 10 oclock and one a two oclock if that were the case
The expander on the 6.5 goes at 4 and the gap at 10
Cyls 123456 are at .004" 7-8 are at .0045
Right out of the GM book. This is the middle to slightly high side of the spec.
Rather a tad loose than "STICK IT"
MGW
Not quite the same as a BBC with the two rails and the expander.
Definately would place one rail at 10 oclock and one a two oclock if that were the case
The expander on the 6.5 goes at 4 and the gap at 10
Cyls 123456 are at .004" 7-8 are at .0045
Right out of the GM book. This is the middle to slightly high side of the spec.
Rather a tad loose than "STICK IT"
MGW
Last edited:
ak diesel driver
6.5 driver
I read somewhere that ring end gaps were only important during breakin. That after that they shifted around. Any thoughts?
3500GMC
What T F, over
Ah yes, me sees. Still learning stuff 'bout these venerable 6.5's.
MGW you chose to use the 'diamond' injector cups. What injector did/will you use, and why...? This could help me chose a combo with my '93. (?) or not. I'm trying to make sense of the pop pressures and pump volume etc. My '93 is a DB2 IP, I think. Need I worry about any of this?
Missy Good Wench
Wild Blonde from Cloud Mt
AK diesel
The ring end gaps dont move much normally
The idea is to keep a very torturous path for the compression to leak through.
This is why the top ring gap is at the top of the cyl and the second is at the bottom.
3500GMC
My engine had diamonds in it. These are the large port cups used in later 6.5 TD's
I am using a set of "T" cups (92 6.5 TD's)
similar port size and will be fine, Plus these are not cracked all out like my diamonds were.
Pop pressure is the pressure at which the injector opens and fuel flows. High pressure (within spec) causes a better spray with a finer mist. A low pressure is usually more like DOG SLOBBER
Having injectors set all very equal on the POP and in the upper limits of the spec makes for fast easy cold starts and better overal running.
The even POP makes for closer Cyl to Cyl timing.
Higher POP makes for MORE Rattle when cold though. At very cold temps they sound like a very unhappy power stroke.
The DB2 runs slightly less pressure than the DS4 but the same rules apply.
The ring end gaps dont move much normally
The idea is to keep a very torturous path for the compression to leak through.
This is why the top ring gap is at the top of the cyl and the second is at the bottom.
3500GMC
My engine had diamonds in it. These are the large port cups used in later 6.5 TD's
I am using a set of "T" cups (92 6.5 TD's)
similar port size and will be fine, Plus these are not cracked all out like my diamonds were.
Pop pressure is the pressure at which the injector opens and fuel flows. High pressure (within spec) causes a better spray with a finer mist. A low pressure is usually more like DOG SLOBBER
Having injectors set all very equal on the POP and in the upper limits of the spec makes for fast easy cold starts and better overal running.
The even POP makes for closer Cyl to Cyl timing.
Higher POP makes for MORE Rattle when cold though. At very cold temps they sound like a very unhappy power stroke.
The DB2 runs slightly less pressure than the DS4 but the same rules apply.
Last edited:
Missy Good Wench
Wild Blonde from Cloud Mt
Missy Good Wench
Wild Blonde from Cloud Mt
Missy Good Wench
Wild Blonde from Cloud Mt
Missy Good Wench
Wild Blonde from Cloud Mt
A lot of little tid bits that so many of us just take for granted and do.
I hope that this stuff is useful to many of you 6.2/6.5 lovers.
Once the build is complete I might decide to take all these pix and arrange them on a DVD along with some narative and make them available for a modest $$
MGW
I hope that this stuff is useful to many of you 6.2/6.5 lovers.
Once the build is complete I might decide to take all these pix and arrange them on a DVD along with some narative and make them available for a modest $$
MGW
Missy Good Wench
Wild Blonde from Cloud Mt
Here is a nice pix of the Dipaco injector hose kit.
This kit comes with everything that you will need to either rehose your current set (lines leaking???) or to install a fresh set.
The hoses do not need clamps, just push on and your set. The end caps have a clamp provided.
The top hat gasket is there as is 8 copper seals for the injectors.
This kit will work for N/A 6.2/6.5 as well as the Turbo models too.
MGW
This kit comes with everything that you will need to either rehose your current set (lines leaking???) or to install a fresh set.
The hoses do not need clamps, just push on and your set. The end caps have a clamp provided.
The top hat gasket is there as is 8 copper seals for the injectors.
This kit will work for N/A 6.2/6.5 as well as the Turbo models too.
MGW
Attachments
Missy Good Wench
Wild Blonde from Cloud Mt
Installing injector lines.
The injector lines are setup in pairs from the factory and are fastened together with small clamps along with a set of split 1/2 clamps at the intake runner area.
The lines go on easlily enough as long as a few things are kept in mind.
One, little force is needed to install these lines. If they are not fitting right you have something wrong.
Dont force the nuts onto the IP or the injector. If you cant spin them on with your fingers there is an issue. You cross thread one of these and it can be costly.
The lines at the top of the IP are #8 on the left of center and #7 on the right of center.
1 is just below 8 looking CCW around the IP
The order is 1-8-7-2-6-5-4-3 going in a CW rotation looking from the rear of the engine.
When installing the lines you need to start with a pair that has one of its lines that go to one of the bottom two fittings on the IP. Install the nut on the IP ends first and only finger snug.
Now install the nuts to the injector ends on the injectors.
Once both set of nuts are snug, wiggle the lines to allow them to settle in and then tighten the nuts up on both ends.
A crowfoot and a 3/8 drive breaker bar work perfect. You can position the crowfoot so you can get on the IP end of the line nut and tighten it up. (Take your time and a little finesse in doing these. They are not hard just require some patience)
You dont have to break the things but they need to be tight. This is a taper seat so dont get crazy on the wrench.
Now install a pairs of lines that has one line that fastens to the lines that are next up from the bottom on each side.
Once up to the mid line your pretty much good to go as access is easy now.
The lines for cyls 2-4 have an interesting set of bends to allow them to fit around another set on the IP.
If things wont go easy, you dont have it right.
HINT*** snap a pix when you rip your engine down, its invaluable later.
(same with the brackets and such)
Now back to the lines. The electric lines that feed into the center of the back of the IP need to feed out and over number 1 line to allow the most slack in the wires to be able to access it for hooking up extention cables and or a manifold mounted cooler (bad idea)
The IP lines came with some nice little 1/2 clamps that go over the manifold flanges and fasten with the bolts that hold the manifold down.
Also there are some small clips on the lines that fasten with a single sheet metal screw onto the valve cover brackets on the ouside of the VC.
Each set of lines has a rubber device that separates them where they are held via the 1/2 clamps.
Keep these in use as they help dampen the pressure pulses and stop the lines from vibrating and cracking.
Ma General installed this stuff for a reason, USE IT.
Make sure before you move on to another line set that the first set is tight.
Once all the sets are tight you are ready to install the manifold.
Dont forget to install the fuel return pipe on the engine before you install the Injector lines as it lays down in the valley under the RH lines.
This pipe can be connected up front with the hose to the fuel Xover pipe and then left loose on the engine.
Once the intake is installed the rear most bracket on the return line will fasten to the last bolt hole on the RH side of the intake.
The front return line bracket is a floater and slides into place over the first hole in the intake flange.
Make sure all your wires for the IP harness are up as far as needed to allow everything to plug in easily on the IP and other topside mounted sensors such as the CTS, IAT,MAP, CPS etc.
If you need to service any of this sutff later and the wires are all bound up it a bitch later to fish the wires up and out, especially after they have taken a set from the heat.
The return line can hinder this so be sure before you button it up that things are just right.
Allow enough slack in the wiring so you could access the plug for the fuel shutoff as well as the crank position sensor too.
After you sit the manifold on and start some bolts, be sure there is not any isues with wires or ???? under the manifold before you tighten the bolts.
Good to go here
MGW
The injector lines are setup in pairs from the factory and are fastened together with small clamps along with a set of split 1/2 clamps at the intake runner area.
The lines go on easlily enough as long as a few things are kept in mind.
One, little force is needed to install these lines. If they are not fitting right you have something wrong.
Dont force the nuts onto the IP or the injector. If you cant spin them on with your fingers there is an issue. You cross thread one of these and it can be costly.
The lines at the top of the IP are #8 on the left of center and #7 on the right of center.
1 is just below 8 looking CCW around the IP
The order is 1-8-7-2-6-5-4-3 going in a CW rotation looking from the rear of the engine.
When installing the lines you need to start with a pair that has one of its lines that go to one of the bottom two fittings on the IP. Install the nut on the IP ends first and only finger snug.
Now install the nuts to the injector ends on the injectors.
Once both set of nuts are snug, wiggle the lines to allow them to settle in and then tighten the nuts up on both ends.
A crowfoot and a 3/8 drive breaker bar work perfect. You can position the crowfoot so you can get on the IP end of the line nut and tighten it up. (Take your time and a little finesse in doing these. They are not hard just require some patience)
You dont have to break the things but they need to be tight. This is a taper seat so dont get crazy on the wrench.
Now install a pairs of lines that has one line that fastens to the lines that are next up from the bottom on each side.
Once up to the mid line your pretty much good to go as access is easy now.
The lines for cyls 2-4 have an interesting set of bends to allow them to fit around another set on the IP.
If things wont go easy, you dont have it right.
HINT*** snap a pix when you rip your engine down, its invaluable later.
(same with the brackets and such)
Now back to the lines. The electric lines that feed into the center of the back of the IP need to feed out and over number 1 line to allow the most slack in the wires to be able to access it for hooking up extention cables and or a manifold mounted cooler (bad idea)
The IP lines came with some nice little 1/2 clamps that go over the manifold flanges and fasten with the bolts that hold the manifold down.
Also there are some small clips on the lines that fasten with a single sheet metal screw onto the valve cover brackets on the ouside of the VC.
Each set of lines has a rubber device that separates them where they are held via the 1/2 clamps.
Keep these in use as they help dampen the pressure pulses and stop the lines from vibrating and cracking.
Ma General installed this stuff for a reason, USE IT.
Make sure before you move on to another line set that the first set is tight.
Once all the sets are tight you are ready to install the manifold.
Dont forget to install the fuel return pipe on the engine before you install the Injector lines as it lays down in the valley under the RH lines.
This pipe can be connected up front with the hose to the fuel Xover pipe and then left loose on the engine.
Once the intake is installed the rear most bracket on the return line will fasten to the last bolt hole on the RH side of the intake.
The front return line bracket is a floater and slides into place over the first hole in the intake flange.
Make sure all your wires for the IP harness are up as far as needed to allow everything to plug in easily on the IP and other topside mounted sensors such as the CTS, IAT,MAP, CPS etc.
If you need to service any of this sutff later and the wires are all bound up it a bitch later to fish the wires up and out, especially after they have taken a set from the heat.
The return line can hinder this so be sure before you button it up that things are just right.
Allow enough slack in the wiring so you could access the plug for the fuel shutoff as well as the crank position sensor too.
After you sit the manifold on and start some bolts, be sure there is not any isues with wires or ???? under the manifold before you tighten the bolts.
Good to go here
MGW
Last edited:
Missy Good Wench
Wild Blonde from Cloud Mt
The glow plug wiring is yet another area that needs mention.
On the LH side of the engine its pretty mudane stuff and as long as the harness is clipped into the places on the VC brackets for the purpose.
The individual plugs snap onto the glowplugs and your off to the rodeo.
Now the RH side gets a bit dicey.
The first area of concern (when doing a rebuild) is the place in the harness where it skirts the RH head and block area as it heads for the starter and glow plugs.
This area has been known to leave the factory with a large amount of flashing on the block casting that will literally chew up the wiring harness.
The wiring harness must be checked on any of these engines when the engine is out.
Now onto the glow plugs on the RH side.
The center two plugs on the later rigs have a ceramic plug on the center two plugs. Along with these the wires have a high temp extension for the center two plugs.
These extensions feed the wires through a set of heat shield tubes that fasten to the stud topped bolts for the center two cylinders.
As long as the wires and plugs are good your set.
TRICK slide the heat shield tube over the wire and back as far as it will go. Now plug snap the connection onto the glow plug and then slide the tube up over the wire and onto the stud tops and install the nuts.
The original wires were held by a little clip on the frame (good idea to use this as it keeps the wires off the manifold)
The front and rear glow plug wires feed though a relatively safe and fairly cool area and dont require extra care. Just make sure they are routed so they are not touching the manifold or rubbing on anything that will later short them to ground.
This same area sees the starter heat shield and the starter rear bracket.
The starter heat shield also protects the glow plug and starter control wiring.
Make sure this heat shield is fastened is correctly to the same bolt that holds the rear starter bracket and one or two the the tranny to engine stud topped bolts.
The starter rear bracket along with all this other stuff aformentioned can be accessed easily bt removing the RH front tire/wheel and the rubber weather flap in the inner fender.
The starter control wire, the main + starter cable and the glow plug harnesses are all easy to get at this way.
That nasty rear starter bracket bolt that everyone cusses is also very easy to get to here.
USE THAT DAMNED BOLT AND BRACKET, lest you be digging out broken starter bolts and or be doomed to a broken starter flange on your engine.
The later basically rendering your lovely 6.5 to being started with the hand crank out front.
Seen far too many broken bolts and starters with cracked nose housings because the bracket was left off or the bolt left out. :nono:
This same access point is also a good one to allow servicing of the turbo drain back hose.
This is a nasty little creature that when leaking makes a HELLUVA mess on the RH front under the turbo.
The access point over the frame is lovely to be able to replace the connector hose for the turbo drain.
Simply remove the turbo retaining nuts along with the band clamp at the down pipe. Undo the bolts that retain the drain back tube.
Now lift off the turbo (need to unhook the airfilter piping and the inlet hose to the manifold too.
Once the turbo is out of your way you can loosen the clamps on the rubber connector hose and then cut then hose to get it off. Wipe the pipe and the crain back unit on the block, install the new hose and reassemble.
No need to remove the manifold to do this.
Replace the gasket at the turbo drain flange too. :smile5:
The exhaust manifold bolts are also easily reached through the same access point with that front tire out of the way.
Always use Never seaze on the exhaust bolts. ALL OF THEM especially in the Xover flanges. As this will make for much easier times later on in life.
The manifold bolts are a tri lobe swagged bolt that self locks via interference in the threads. The threads in the head are cut and the bolts have a rolled thread that has a flat spot in three places to keep things from backing off.
Always use the factory bolts here.
These bolts are availble from MA General.
They are sold by the each and have a few different part numbers for the various lengths and types used for the RH and LH sides
I will try and get these numbers and post them.
They are not cheap but they are good and work well.
6.5 and 6.2 use basically the same bolts.
I will add to this as time permits and I think of more good stuff to post.
MGW
On the LH side of the engine its pretty mudane stuff and as long as the harness is clipped into the places on the VC brackets for the purpose.
The individual plugs snap onto the glowplugs and your off to the rodeo.
Now the RH side gets a bit dicey.
The first area of concern (when doing a rebuild) is the place in the harness where it skirts the RH head and block area as it heads for the starter and glow plugs.
This area has been known to leave the factory with a large amount of flashing on the block casting that will literally chew up the wiring harness.
The wiring harness must be checked on any of these engines when the engine is out.
Now onto the glow plugs on the RH side.
The center two plugs on the later rigs have a ceramic plug on the center two plugs. Along with these the wires have a high temp extension for the center two plugs.
These extensions feed the wires through a set of heat shield tubes that fasten to the stud topped bolts for the center two cylinders.
As long as the wires and plugs are good your set.
TRICK slide the heat shield tube over the wire and back as far as it will go. Now plug snap the connection onto the glow plug and then slide the tube up over the wire and onto the stud tops and install the nuts.
The original wires were held by a little clip on the frame (good idea to use this as it keeps the wires off the manifold)
The front and rear glow plug wires feed though a relatively safe and fairly cool area and dont require extra care. Just make sure they are routed so they are not touching the manifold or rubbing on anything that will later short them to ground.
This same area sees the starter heat shield and the starter rear bracket.
The starter heat shield also protects the glow plug and starter control wiring.
Make sure this heat shield is fastened is correctly to the same bolt that holds the rear starter bracket and one or two the the tranny to engine stud topped bolts.
The starter rear bracket along with all this other stuff aformentioned can be accessed easily bt removing the RH front tire/wheel and the rubber weather flap in the inner fender.
The starter control wire, the main + starter cable and the glow plug harnesses are all easy to get at this way.
That nasty rear starter bracket bolt that everyone cusses is also very easy to get to here.
USE THAT DAMNED BOLT AND BRACKET, lest you be digging out broken starter bolts and or be doomed to a broken starter flange on your engine.
The later basically rendering your lovely 6.5 to being started with the hand crank out front
.Seen far too many broken bolts and starters with cracked nose housings because the bracket was left off or the bolt left out. :nono:
This same access point is also a good one to allow servicing of the turbo drain back hose.
This is a nasty little creature that when leaking makes a HELLUVA mess on the RH front under the turbo.
The access point over the frame is lovely to be able to replace the connector hose for the turbo drain.
Simply remove the turbo retaining nuts along with the band clamp at the down pipe. Undo the bolts that retain the drain back tube.
Now lift off the turbo (need to unhook the airfilter piping and the inlet hose to the manifold too.
Once the turbo is out of your way you can loosen the clamps on the rubber connector hose and then cut then hose to get it off. Wipe the pipe and the crain back unit on the block, install the new hose and reassemble.
No need to remove the manifold to do this.
Replace the gasket at the turbo drain flange too. :smile5:
The exhaust manifold bolts are also easily reached through the same access point with that front tire out of the way.
Always use Never seaze on the exhaust bolts. ALL OF THEM especially in the Xover flanges.
As this will make for much easier times later on in life.The manifold bolts are a tri lobe swagged bolt that self locks via interference in the threads. The threads in the head are cut and the bolts have a rolled thread that has a flat spot in three places to keep things from backing off.
Always use the factory bolts here.
These bolts are availble from MA General.
They are sold by the each and have a few different part numbers for the various lengths and types used for the RH and LH sides
I will try and get these numbers and post them.
They are not cheap but they are good and work well.
6.5 and 6.2 use basically the same bolts.
I will add to this as time permits and I think of more good stuff to post.
MGW
Veg_Out
Walking J Designs
This thread is gold. Thank you Missy!
Missy Good Wench
Wild Blonde from Cloud Mt
You are welcome.
I just wanted to help folks out with these little tid bits.
A lot of this has come at a price. I had to wade into my first one the hard way.
One bolt at a time.
I thank my good fortune to have had access to a reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaalllllllly good GM parts man that could find anything I needed.
best
MGW
I just wanted to help folks out with these little tid bits.
A lot of this has come at a price. I had to wade into my first one the hard way.
One bolt at a time.
I thank my good fortune to have had access to a reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaalllllllly good GM parts man that could find anything I needed.
best
MGW
Missy Good Wench
Wild Blonde from Cloud Mt
Here is an interesting glow plug harness that apears to be a stand alone unit.
Not sure of its origins but it sure is a lovely piece.
The Trucks and Burbs incorporate the glow wiring into the main firewall harness and have the starter lead and other stuff mixed in on the RH side and the temp sender and wastegate solenoid wiring on the LH side.
This setup is all by itself with even its own little clips to snap to the injector lines on the LH side.
Also has the high temp extenders for cyls 2-4-6
Another nice touch is ceramic covers on all plug connectors instead of the plastic ones normally found.
Anyone with some information as to what this beast fit originally please contact me.
What a grand little piece.
Missy
Not sure of its origins but it sure is a lovely piece.
The Trucks and Burbs incorporate the glow wiring into the main firewall harness and have the starter lead and other stuff mixed in on the RH side and the temp sender and wastegate solenoid wiring on the LH side.
This setup is all by itself with even its own little clips to snap to the injector lines on the LH side.
Also has the high temp extenders for cyls 2-4-6
Another nice touch is ceramic covers on all plug connectors instead of the plastic ones normally found.
Anyone with some information as to what this beast fit originally please contact me.
What a grand little piece.
Missy
Attachments
I'm considering a complete rebuild of a 2000 6.5 out of my drw dump. It has 137k runs great but has blow by. The rest of the truck is rotted out. I have a clean HD with a questionable engine, so I was thinking of rebuilding and changing the engines. I don't see how its cost effective to rebuild. I should have the block and heads tested. A good master kit is 800-900. At the end I still have a block prone to cracking. Could someone explain what I'm missing?
ak diesel driver
6.5 driver
All of the blocks are prone to cracking. If it doesn't have cracks already it is a well seasoned block and should be less susceptible. Heard good things about gap less rings I'd seriously consider that.
Sent from my Studio 5.0s using Tapatalk
Sent from my Studio 5.0s using Tapatalk
Mr. Hipster
Member
Bought a center mount turbo 6.5 engine off eBay, 2000 model year short school bus chassis, Jasper fondled reman?? I know that can't be good however it had the glow plug harness like the image posted. I like it.