It lives

[gumps10]

After 2 plus years the burb lives
Been driving to work since Thursday
Running great but starting hard and throwing some codes
Wondering if its the PMD or something different

 

[Matt Bachand]

http://www.dieseltowingresource.com/showpost.php?p=73211&postcount=1

Copy / Paste that filled out checklist and we'll get her startin great and code free in no time.

 

[gumps10]

That was my next step..... just dreadin the results LOL

 

[gumps10]

diagnostics

Problem: Explain your problem in concise language (ie: Cranks but won’t fire). ____________________________

Demographics: tell us about your truck and your ambient conditions:

- Year: __1995____
- Truck model and class (ie: c2500) __2500 suburban_______
- Automatic or Standard _____auto_____
- Mileage: (indicate miles or km) 265000_________
- Replaced parts and mods (IP, PMD, chip/PCM, TM, injectors etc) ___________
- Model: ‘S’ or ‘F’ engine, NA or Turbo, EGR? __s____turbo________
- Ambient outside temp: (indicate *C or *F) ____65-75 f______
- What fuel are you using? (#1 Diesel, #2 Diesel, Bio, VO, WVO, etc) ____bio_____
- What fuel additives are you using? ___none________
- Where are you located? ______NY_______

General maintenance: inspect and evaluate the condition of each. When were they last changed?
- Air filter _________
- Fuel filter _________
- CDR Valve? _________
- Coolant – last flushed/replaced at __replace with swap___________
- Oil – synthetic/regular, changed at __regular replace with swap_________
- Batteries – state of charge, (matched set) replaced at ___matched__________
- Battery cables and grounds (removed, cleaned and tightened): _____removed cleaned tightened and doubled_________
- Glow Plugs - how many miles on them? ___?????______ What type? ____delco_________
- Injectors - last changed at ___????____________


History: (Describe how the problem first appeared.)
- What were you doing when it happened? revving in the driveway
- How was the truck running fine before this problem appeared? ______yes_______
- Has this problem ever happened before? _no______________________
- Describe any related factors that might be part of the problem. codes hard start __________
- Have you checked for DTC (Diagnostic Trouble Codes)? (Y.N) ___y_ And? 17 18 35


Diagnostics:

1] Starting:
1a] Does the engine start? ____y_____
1b] Does the engine crank over? ___y_____
1c] Are your batteries fully charged? ____y_____
1d] Have you removed, cleaned, and tightened all battery connections? ___y_____
1e] Does your Wait to Start light come on for a time? How long? _____y ___
1f] Does your glow plug light come on? ___y______ For how long? _________
1g] Do you see smoke from the exhaust while cranking? What color? ________
1h] Does the Service Engine Light Glow during Start/bulb check? __y______

2] Fuel Issues (if not running):
2a] Can you hear your lift pump working? ____y________
2b] Do you get a steady flow of fuel from the water drain (T-handle) ? __y_______
2c] Loosen the inlet line from the IP – is fuel coming out (Lift Pump on)? ____y_______
2d] Loosen an injector line and crank the engine - does fuel come out? _________
2e] Do you hear a vacuum (hiss) when you remove the fuel cap? ___________

3] PMD / IP Issues
3a] Location of PMD (on pump, on intake, remote mounted) __pump will remove soon_________
3b] Condition of Extension harness (if used) Vendor or Homemade? __na_______
3c] Condition of grounds / ground wires to IP / PMD. Check Harness. _________
3d] PMD Make: ___________
3e] PMD Age: _____________

4] Stalling Issues
4a] Do you experience stalling only when hot? _____n_______
4b] Does it stall under particular circumstances? (ie hit bump, or on accel) ____n__
4c] Does pouring cool water over the IP seem to help with restarting? _________
4d] Is stalling momentary (engine recovers)? _________
4e] Does SES light come on when engine hiccups? _________
4f] Does cruise control quit working when engine hiccups? ___________
4g] Does re-starting seem to reset engine, restoring cruise and power? _________
4h] Changes to dash lights or instruments during stalling events? ___________

5] Running Issues
5a] On cold start, does upper rad hose get hard before engine warms up? ___n____
5b] Any bubbles or oil film in coolant overflow tank? ____n___
5c] Any white slime on oil surfaces (dipstick, CDR, oil Fill cap)? _____n_____
5d] Excessive white smoke from exhaust on cold start? ___n______
5e] Excessive black smoke from exhaust under hard acceleration? ___n_______

6] Performance Issues
6a] Do you have gauges (boost, EGT) ? _n__________
6b] Maximum boost under load? ______na______
6c] Have you added a performance PCM (reflash) or Chip? _____n_________
6d] Have you changed exhaust / downpipe / crossover? ______n__________
6e] Wastegate – mechanical or vacuum (OEM)? _____oem_________

7] Temperature-related Issues:
7a] Single or dual thermostats? ______single______
7b] Have you replaced them lately? Manufacturer of replacements? _____n____
7c] Have you pulled and cleaned Radiator and coolers lately? _______y_____
7d] Have you replaced the fan clutch? Manufacturer of replacement? _____n___
7e] (winter) Have you tested your antifreeze? Good to what temp? ____n______
7f] (winter) Are you using a winter grille cover? _____n______
n
List and describe any other factors which are not addressed in this checklist. We can’t see, hear, smell, or touch your truck, so the more descriptive information you can give, the more likely it is that somebody can assist you.

The motor was just replaced with a doner Jasper 6.2 crate engine
It ran great but I had some return line isues
I pulled the tank and fixed the return line
It started back up and I drove it around again
A day or to later I was fiddleing with it in the drive way when reving the engine to 3000 it started to break up
now it breaks up around 2800 (right before shift @ hard accel)
it starts hard....turns over great but has to crank for 25 secs or so first even after warm
It stays at high idle and those were the last 3 codes I got

 

[buddy]

If you clear the codes, do those come back? Is the SES light always on?

If might be limp mode and not high idle.

You probably have air in the fuel lines, bubbly fuel, water, or cloudy fuel, unless youve put in some really dark Biodiesel or used motor oil or something. What level of Bio is it? 5, 20, 100? Bio will pick sludge off the tank and make the fuel cloudy or dirty and might clog your filter quick.

The Optical Sensor is failing to see through the fuel to get the camshaft reference, is how you get the 17 and 18. That or its dead.

 

[Paveltolz]

Off topic while those with clearer heads than mine go over the list...good looking dirt bike in your avitar. Reminds me of the duel fueled scout bikes the Marines used to have that ran on diesel. Sorry, I was thinking of them a couple days back.

 

[gumps10]

If you clear the codes, do those come back? Is the SES light always on?
we cleared the codes by disconecting the batteris they do come back

If might be limp mode and not high idle.

always @ high idle right now

You probably have air in the fuel lines, bubbly fuel, water, or cloudy fuel, unless youve put in some really dark Biodiesel or used motor oil or something. What level of Bio is it? 5, 20, 100? Bio will pick sludge off the tank and make the fuel cloudy or dirty and might clog your filter quick.

High quality b100 It does seem like their is air but I do not know what is causing it I will try a new filter I had not replaced it yet :rolleyes5: and forgot to get a new one when I picked up the high idle sensor yesterday :mad2: the bio is real clear but I did put a clear line on the return and am seeing bubbles there is this right?

The Optical Sensor is failing to see through the fuel to get the camshaft reference, is how you get the 17 and 18. That or its dead.

 

[96 OILBURNER]

You may also want to check the ECT sensor, if bad or unplugged, the idle will increase.

 

[buddy]

Well, B100, not recommended in our IPs, Im not saying it wont work, but Stanadyne claims no more than B20 or less. And it will clean the crap out of all your fuel lines and tank. So check your filter and like I said if the fuel is picking up particles and making the fuel cloudy it will blind the eye of the optical sensor.

In limp mode, officially called "backup fuel" it sets a constant pulse width which will cause constant fast idle and poor performance.

The GM service manual actually says air in the fuel will cause a DTC 17. But that goes for dark fuel and cloudy fuel too.

 

[gumps10]

New filter

I put a new filter in yesterday after it quit:rolleyes5:
I think I'm getting air from somewhere and I think I'm running in limp mode
I cleared the codes last night havn't checked them since will check again today

 

[gumps10]

codes

It reads the following 4 codes
17
18
35
43
starting a little better after the new fuel filter

 

[gumps10]

How do I know for sure I'm in limp mode

I think I'm running in limp mode and I don't know how to check or what to do???

 

[buddy]

Is your SES on constant, current codes, if 17 and 18 are current then you are in limp mode.

What was the issue that it hasnt run for 2 years, what "fixed" it?

You should not put B100 in it This injection pump is not forgiving. Unless the Bio is of good quality it will kill the IP, and thats not even to say how the Optical Sensor behaves when the Bio picks up sediment and stuff that affects the fuel's opacity.

What I would suggest is pumping a lot of fuel out of the drain line with the LP, should clean it out good. Drop the fuel tank and see if its nasty inside, get rid of the snot sock inside the tank and run a pre lift pump filter if youre going to run Bio and get a better lift pump.

Put a clear line from the IP return on the top to the return fuel line right in front of it. You might be able to see if fuel is cloudy or bubbly going through the IP. Check to see if you fuel cap is vented, says diesel on it. Try loosening it.

 

[gumps10]

I did

I did have a clear line between the IP and the return had one steady bubble @ the top that just wouldn't go over the hump
Removed it because it would kink
I have a clear on the return line from the return crossover to the return line under the intake that has steady bubbles
It had steady bubbles prior to bio.
The bio is first rate quality and very clear
My brother (Mangus 580) has been running it for over 6 months now with out any problems(except a fuel filter or 2)
I did have the tank out to fix the plugged return line
It was plugged on the pickup

All that said I'm not sure that the Bio may not be contributing to the problem as it is cleaning everything out. But I did run 5 gallons of Pure diesel after I put the first five gallons of Bio in it and still continued with the problem.
The motor that came in the Burb was no good and we were waiting to find a nice replacement hence the 2 year sit

SES is on constant even after a reset 17 18 and 35 pop right back up
Can I pull the Optic sensor and test or clean. it may have gotten crap on it from the "Bio Clean" or may be bad but I do not want to keep throwing parts @ it to find out it is a PMD problem or something of the sort

Thanks
Dave

 

[Missy Good Wench]

If you have steady bubbles then you have an air leak.

Run down where its getting in the system.

Try corking up the line just before the filter and induce a slight pressure on the tank
( 5 PSI or so) and see if you get any leaks on the ground.

Any air will have to be prior to the lift pump (unless its not working)

There can be ZERO bubbles in the return line (streams)
Run this down and fix it and likely the codes and hard start etc will go away.

The codes are
17 High res circuit fault (Optical sensor)
18 Pump cam reference error
35 Pulse width error (short) (Fuel solenoid)
43 Fuel temp circuit (low temp)

I am suspect with this combination of codes that you may have a ground issue or power issue.

Check the harness grounds at the RH rear of the intake manifold.
There are two or three wires coming from the main harness.
There is also a braided body/chassis/engine ground too.

Be sure battery grounds are good on both the battery and the block and that the ++++ cable connections are good.

+14V at the power distribution positive lug (coming from the LH battery on 95 model)

Low voltage or bad gounds will drive these things nuts (You too)

MGW

 

[buddy]

B100 can also eat up seals and hoses. Make sure your filter is down correct, its keyed to go down all the way, and make sure there arent a couple gaskets on it, and the bottom isnt leaking. Also make sure you didnt mix up the outputs of the filter manager, out to the IP and drain to the T-valve.

 

[gumps10]

No air to the pump

I added a clear line from the filter housing and the ip no air to the IP
still throwin codes 17 and 18
Still starting hard even when warmed up shut of and started immediately
I still have air in the return line but do not know were it is coming from

 

[buddy]

Sounds like you maybe do need a new OS. But are you still getting code 43 too? before changing out OS or IP, pull off the OS harness and with truck off, ignition on, check that there is 5VDC across pins A (grey wire) and D or F (white wire). A is the 5V reference for the timing stuff. D/F is the ground for that and the fuel temp circuit. DTC43 is fuel temp, so if you are getting all of those codes actively I would think that ground is broken. Its an internal PCM ground, but the wire could be broken.

If you dont have 5V between those pins, check pin A to ground to make sure its 5V. Then check pin D/F to battery and there should be 12V.

Could also just be a bad connection on OS

This may be helpful
http://www.mamut.net/royh/newsdet9.htm

 

[gumps10]

I'm an Idiot

The *&^T% OS had come unplugged got it plugged back in the thing runs sweet
the tab that holds the plug in is broke guess I'm gonna be the #1 in the Zip tie OS sensor club :mad2:

 

[buddy]

Im glad you said it.....need to rethink the first recommendation when someone has OS codes. Make sure the OS is plugged in.