• Welcome to The Truck Stop! We see you haven't REGISTERED yet.

    Your truck knowledge is missing!
    • Registration is FREE , all we need is your birthday and email. (We don't share ANY data with ANYONE)
    • We have tons of knowledge here for your diesel truck!
    • Post your own topics and reply to existing threads to help others out!
    • NO ADS! The site is fully functional and ad free!
    CLICK HERE TO REGISTER!

    Problems registering? Click here to contact us!

    Already registered, but need a PASSWORD RESET? CLICK HERE TO RESET YOUR PASSWORD!

Swapping Heath Chip?

coxpn2

coxpn2

coxpn2
Messages
89
Reaction score
0
Location
Western New York
The basic history of my suburban is as follows:
Bought it with a broken crank, knew it needed a replacement engine.
Suburban had 4" exhaust, Heath chip, turbomaster.

I bought a same year (1995) K1500 (stock) and pulled the complete engine (turbo/IP/etc), putting it in the suburban. Kept the same Heath chip in the suburban.

I've never been happy with the power that the truck puts out... nor the mileage. It appears to run fine, no issues to speak of, but I tow a couple 5k trailers (total weight) and it brings the truck to its knees. Even a 1500 lb. trailer makes it slow down a lot.

The question is: is using the heath chip ok, or could it not be "correct" for the used engine I swapped over? I'm not sure how it communicates with the truck... my thinking is that if the chip was "designed" for the old engine and IP, then it wouldn't be matched with the new one? Or maybe the chip doesn't care... its just a thought I had. Any thoughts from anyone?
 
Are you still running a GMx turbo? My truck didn't wake up or get good mileage till I went aftermarket(att) turbo. Someone else can chime in on electronics. I swapped a takeout engine into a Heath tuned computer, and had no issues. I have not had it reflashed for att turbo as I'm worried about mileage loss.
 
Shouldn't matter what engine you use, they are all basically the same.

The only issue On the IP might be if your burb was a 94 w 5068 HO pump. Otherwise all pumps are interchangeable
 
IMO and others on here, a GMx turbo is restricting air into the engine, costing mileage and power. I didn't get any better mileage and not much more power with a heath tune till I chucked the turbomaster and GM8 in the scrapheap. Even though I read the results of aftermarket turbos on here, I got an ATT turbo because it is cheaper tham a new GMx. It is one of the few times cheaping out on something saves me money daily. ATT is not the only option, just the one I got from Leroy. You have the exhaust covered, so you are halfway there. Again, Just my opinion, but I went from 17.9 to 20ish and probably met the stated power gain from the tune.
 
My vote is on either an exhaust leak, fuel starvation, or it is not getting enough air. If there is a lack of black smoke, can probably rule out the lack of air.
 
Gmx turbo doesn't leave much in the way for performance gains IMO. I felt a difference from Vin S to tuned Vin F w/ gmx but w/ same tuning every turbo I tried seem to run stronger that stock gm4
 
Check the IP model # on the original motor and the current one to confirm or rule that difference possibility out.

Get the data off the chip as Bill labels them all.

Call him and discuss what's happened and ascertain what the tune is.

I'm betting your IP timing is way off or the original owner may have requested an economy tune vs. a performance one.

My biggest, noticeable and funnest upgrade was the GLE, TM and 4" exhaust on a GM 5. All others since have been compromises.
 
JayTheCPA said:
My vote is on either an exhaust leak, fuel starvation, or it is not getting enough air. If there is a lack of black smoke, can probably rule out the lack of air.
Click to expand...

I have TM set at 12 PSI, and consistently hit that number. Would that rule out the exhaust leak? (Personally, I think I would hear it, and I don't think there is one.

Fuel starvation is a possibility. I will get a gauge rigged up one of these days to double check. I get a haze of black smoke on WOT, so I'm thinking that since black smoke is unburned fuel, then I probably don't have a fuel problem?

Lack of air. I have the stock intake on it, with a new filter 5k ago. The stock flat panel isn't the best, so I'm keeping my eyes out for a K47.

Paveltolz said:
Check the IP model # on the original motor and the current one to confirm or rule that difference possibility out.

Get the data off the chip as Bill labels them all.

Call him and discuss what's happened and ascertain what the tune is.

I'm betting your IP timing is way off or the original owner may have requested an economy tune vs. a performance one.

My biggest, noticeable and funnest upgrade was the GLE, TM and 4" exhaust on a GM 5. All others since have been compromises.
Click to expand...

I'll get the info off the pump and give Heath a call to see what he thinks. Wouldn't I notice if the timing was far off enough to make that much of a difference?
I'll let you know what Bill/Heath says.

WarWagon said:
Your engine may vary with the EGR. Otherwise I suggest your 1995 has the same issues all 6.5TD's do the factory equipped asthma attack.
Click to expand...

The engine in the sub was an "F" engine, so that should be comparable. I'm sure the 6.5 "asthma attack has something to do with it, but I'm trying to narrow down the "easy" things before considering a turbo. Which I wouldn't really consider in the near future due to the money involved... it would take awhile to pay off with mileage/power gains given it is only a daily driver.

I'm also thinking I have too light of a spring in my TM. On a slight uphill grade accelerating in 2nd gear, unloaded, I can EASILY hit 12 psi. On a flat road, with moderate acceleration as well. My thought is that the turbo is creating more back pressure at low throttle when it isn't necessary, sucking more fuel when not necessary. But I'm still figuring turbos out :)
 
Have you removed the restrictive snorkel from the fender? Air filter clean? Exhaust leaks are easy to see with black soot outlines. Only the preturbo ones matter. Possible crossover internally collapsed as it is a double wall pipe that can de-lamanate. 12 PSI means there is 24 PSI or better in the exhaust with the GM butt-plug turbo. The GMx starts to heat the air more than compress it at 14 PSI or more - it's red line for RPM is around 14 PSI. The TM does keep excess boost on for light throttle as you noted above.

You may need to tighten up the TM to the 14 PSI redline for the tune. It vary with altitude and load so 12 PSI at 1,000 ft can be 14 PSI at 8,000 ft altitude.

They say money can't buy happiness. Well those folks haven't replaced a GMx with an HX40II or ATT turbo. It is the biggest issue you have with performance over 2200 RPM. It's simply a restriction over 2200 RPM. It can pay you back, but, remember you have to pay to play. Ultimate MPG is going NA and severe power loss. Others have taken some interesting routes with the GMx, but, may not be cheaper than a better turbo. (Example would be port matching and flowing the heads.) Even Bill offers a better turbo or is working on one.

The black smoke should be a puff. A constant haze with a GM turbo means you have an air restriction/leak or simply too much fuel for that small turbo. Possible your lift pump quit and causing havoc with the IP.
 
Warwagon - interesting thoughts... thank you.
I talked to Bill today, he suggested a couple things, but mostly that I need to get the chip into his hands and see what we're working off with. Apparently going from one engine to a different engine (different IP's) doesn't really work out. Especially going from an "F" engine suburban to an "S" engine 1500 series truck. (even with the swapped "F" intake)

For people reading that don't know Bill Heath: this wasn't a "get-your-chip-in-my-hands-so-I-can-charge-you-for-a-new-one". It was a "let's establish what you've got there before we go too much further". He'll upgrade my chip if it proves to need it (he said it sounds like it does) for some $, but was adamant that if I didn't think it was better and wasn't completely satisfied he'd take it back to the way it was and refund any money. He legitimately sounded like he didn't want anyone out there with a Heath product that wasn't 100% happy with it... which is why Heath is a great company.

So I'm planning to send the chip over there and see what tune I've got and go from there. I'll report back!
 
You can feel secure with Bill when he says he will give you a refund. I never heard anyone say he went back on his word.

On the air filter restriction question: Pull the air filter out and give it a test run. Before someone jumps on me and shoots me for causing a nuclear meltdown in his cylinder walls from the gravel that will not be stopped by the missing air filter- a test run as in a mile or two without the air filter, not drive unfiltered for a day. You will know immediately if there is a restriction.
 
For a possible air restriction, you might want to take a look at the inlet to the air filter box in the fender.

Sounds crazy but it happened to me last weekend. I checked air filter and looked into the air box when I bought my Yukon about a month ago and didn't see any problems. Last weekend I pulled inner fender and air box off to replace the injectors. When I pulled the air box inlet out of the fender, there was an old rats nest + a big mud dobbber wasp nest inside the fender that you couldn't see with the air box in place. Air into the air box was restricted down to an opening about the size of a golf ball.

When I bought the Yukon, the guy I bought it from said it came from his cousin and it had been sitting for a while. I don't know how long your suburban was sitting before you bought it, but you might have a blockage like I found inside the fender at the air box inlet.
 
I thought I was the only one. I ended up fitting a piece of hardware cloth there as rodents will move in and clog the area in a few days with acorns, bird seed, or chewed hood insulation.
 
One of Bill's customers was complaining about underpower and smoke. Balked at the suggestion of air restriction. After a few back and forth phone calls he decided to prove Bill wrong...NOT.Mouse Nest 1.JPG
 
Thanks, for posting pic. Makes me feel not so bad. The only pics I could find was of interior damage from vermin.
 
I had a 94 with a GM4 that would drag you all over the yard backwards... Simple stuff: Air in, exhaust out, Heath Chip, Turbomaster (some home-made ones just don't work that good, sorry guys, no offense, but they don't.), Tuning (timing) the IP is critical. If it doesn't work after that, THEN you start adding parts.

Turbine Doc used to have all kinds of power with a GMx turbo, just like Paul and I.

Is the ATT better? Yep. But you don't need one to get good scoot outta your ride.
 
Step #1 is to get the right chip in there and make sure timing is right, then I'll start tracking down other things.

My C1500 with 3.42 gears used to walk up long hills in OD with TC locked... I realize the suburban is heavier and 4x4, but asking it to pull itself (with or without a 3k light trailer) up Western New York grades should not be too much to ask.

Now if I wanted to pull 10k through the mountains like some of you guys do, then that's a different story :)
Chip went in the mail this morning, so I should know something from Heath later this week...
 
After a call from Bill, it appears that he found the issue. Apparently the chip was the correct one, but something happened to it and trashed the programming. Most likely a grounding issue or a voltage spike. He said there is no way that thing ran right the way it was, which confirms my concerns (and makes me happy). He even tried to reprogram it but it was so messed up it wouldn't take a tune.

New one is in the mail. I have been tasked to check, fix all grounds before install. I'll let you know how I make out, but I have a feeling it's going to be good!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top