Rings & Pistons

[Rodd]

Upon getting everything ready to put my rebuild back together I felt a tiny little lip on one of the cylinders that couldn't be easily seen with the eyes. I took it to my machine shop and they said it had to be bored. So now I get to buy new rings and pistons. My machine shop can get me Mahle pistons for $82 each, which seems to be a really good price. There are other manufacturers like Sealed Power, DNJ, Enginetech, etc. are there any that should avoided. I am thinking of just using sealed power gapless rings vs send them another manufacturers rings to make gapless. I am basically looking for bank for my buck since I am now spending more money that I hadn't budgeted and to top it off, my business is much slower with this virus shutting down most businesses.

 

[ak diesel driver]

I'd price them from SP before you decide. Last set I got from them was kinda pricey I thought.

 

[Twisted Steel Performance]

Stay away from enginetech period....

I get "builder" pricing from Total Seal, and have bought many sets, the ring set I purchased from them for my P 400 build are top quality and the difference can be seen side by side, not someone elses they machined or rebranded... they are not cheap @ close to 600$ for the ring set alone..

I would recommend purchasing pistons with rings then sending the 8 - 2nd rings in to be machined by Total Seal, cost is 10$ per ring + 15$ setup then shipping back to you.. then you know the quality of rings you have..

 

[Twisted Steel Performance]

6.5 6.5L Diesel Pistons +.030 1992-02 MAHLE Coated (set of 8) GM Chevy w/ Rings | eBay

MAHLE Pistons. The Eutectic material with MAHLE's ring groove inserts make a better piston than a forged material which does not hold the insert very well. MAHLE uses Eutectic material so they can install high strength ring-land inserts into the piston grooves for longer life.

www.ebay.com

6.5 6.5L Diesel Pistons +.020 1992-02 MAHLE Coated (set of 8) GM Chevy w/ Rings | eBay

MAHLE Pistons. The Eutectic material with MAHLE's ring groove inserts make a better piston than a forged material which does not hold the insert very well. MAHLE uses Eutectic material so they can install high strength ring-land inserts into the piston grooves for longer life.

www.ebay.com

 

[Rodd]

I'd price them from SP before you decide. Last set I got from them was kinda pricey I thought.

good to know. Thanks!

 

[Rodd]

Stay away from enginetech period....

I get "builder" pricing from Total Seal, and have bought many sets, the ring set I purchased from them for my P 400 build are top quality and the difference can be seen side by side, not someone elses they machined or rebranded... they are not cheap @ close to 600$ for the ring set alone..

I would recommend purchasing pistons with rings then sending the 8 - 2nd rings in to be machined by Total Seal, cost is 10$ per ring + 15$ setup then shipping back to you.. then you know the quality of rings you have..

Thanks! I assumed that since they are the company that makes/cuts the gapless rings they would be less expensive. I guess not.

 

[Rodd]

6.5 6.5L Diesel Pistons +.030 1992-02 MAHLE Coated (set of 8) GM Chevy w/ Rings | eBay

MAHLE Pistons. The Eutectic material with MAHLE's ring groove inserts make a better piston than a forged material which does not hold the insert very well. MAHLE uses Eutectic material so they can install high strength ring-land inserts into the piston grooves for longer life.

www.ebay.com

6.5 6.5L Diesel Pistons +.020 1992-02 MAHLE Coated (set of 8) GM Chevy w/ Rings | eBay

MAHLE Pistons. The Eutectic material with MAHLE's ring groove inserts make a better piston than a forged material which does not hold the insert very well. MAHLE uses Eutectic material so they can install high strength ring-land inserts into the piston grooves for longer life.

www.ebay.com

These are really good prices. Thanks!

 

[Will L.]

Total Seal rings is nothing about low cost, High quality at added expense. I could not afford/ justify the Total Seal rings. I agree they are worth it if you can afford it.

I Can’t say I agree with Chris 100% on engine tech (maybe 99+%) but I would not argue against him on it either... i got lucky But you better do your homework if you try to also...

I hadn’t bought from them in a few years and when I bought my set of rings from Leroy I assumed he bought 40-50 sets to get the price break to justify the low cost. When I opened the package and saw Engine Tech- I panicked and was ready to send them back instantly. I called Leroy and said I knew engine tech didn’t actually make rings and it’s a crap shoot if they are quality or garbage rings based on who actually made them and what level of material they actually are. He offered immediate refund if I wasn’t happy, but asked I look at what they really are first.

I used The part numbers on the package, called engine tech and found they are Hastings ductile steel. Then verified with Hastings the same details. For my use- more concerned in long life, withstanding heat variations, etc I want ductile steel with the 3 piece oil ring. Moly rings and 2 piece oil ring is another good option but more oriented towards power over longevity. Basically Hastings verified what engine tech said: they buy overstock supplies and have it labeled to their info but attach the original mfr part numbers for id and tracking info.
Hastings has a good record for diesel engines. They are not the best, But are not far from it. Hastings actually makes most of the rings for GM, Ford, Cummins, diesels. They make them for GEP. My price from Leroy was about 65-70% what it would have been if I bought the same rings in Hastings box and had the rings done by total seal myself not counting the extra shipping cost there would have been. So MY result was good. If I were buying another set from him I would ask what part numbers on the engine tech box and find out ahead of time which ones he has in stock before ordering. If anyone can afford the best rings- absolutely get Total Seal brand rings and have them made gapless.

There is another caveat here too: gapping the rings.
The BEST method is get your rings, gap them, then send in to have made gapless. You pay for shipping the rings a few bucks more that way, but it is much easier to file a normal ring than the thinner gapless. You still have to file down the gapless rings to the proper size and you need to be more careful with thinner rings. Coming already made gapless before you size them will add more time and effort to your build- but if you are already going to file 16 times, 8 more times won’t kill ya. Just watch YouTube how to do it, do the fat rings first to get the feel, and don’t “zone out” while doing it. Pay attention the whole time and make sure you know how to properly break the filed edge when finishing.

I have never found an oil pump for the 6.5 that wasn’t actually made by Melling. Relabeled parts is common place. But you have to be 100% on who is making it and what quality material and quality of spec the component is made to...

 

[Rodd]

Thanks for the info Will. I will have them gapped before sending them off to have them cut for gapless.

 

[Rodd]

Total Seal rings is nothing about low cost, High quality at added expense. I could not afford/ justify the Total Seal rings. I agree they are worth it if you can afford it.

I Can’t say I agree with Chris 100% on engine tech (maybe 99+%) but I would not argue against him on it either... i got lucky But you better do your homework if you try to also...

I hadn’t bought from them in a few years and when I bought my set of rings from Leroy I assumed he bought 40-50 sets to get the price break to justify the low cost. When I opened the package and saw Engine Tech- I panicked and was ready to send them back instantly. I called Leroy and said I knew engine tech didn’t actually make rings and it’s a crap shoot if they are quality or garbage rings based on who actually made them and what level of material they actually are. He offered immediate refund if I wasn’t happy, but asked I look at what they really are first.

I used The part numbers on the package, called engine tech and found they are Hastings ductile steel. Then verified with Hastings the same details. For my use- more concerned in long life, withstanding heat variations, etc I want ductile steel with the 3 piece oil ring. Moly rings and 2 piece oil ring is another good option but more oriented towards power over longevity. Basically Hastings verified what engine tech said: they buy overstock supplies and have it labeled to their info but attach the original mfr part numbers for id and tracking info.
Hastings has a good record for diesel engines. They are not the best, But are not far from it. Hastings actually makes most of the rings for GM, Ford, Cummins, diesels. They make them for GEP. My price from Leroy was about 65-70% what it would have been if I bought the same rings in Hastings box and had the rings done by total seal myself not counting the extra shipping cost there would have been. So MY result was good. If I were buying another set from him I would ask what part numbers on the engine tech box and find out ahead of time which ones he has in stock before ordering. If anyone can afford the best rings- absolutely get Total Seal brand rings and have them made gapless.

There is another caveat here too: gapping the rings.
The BEST method is get your rings, gap them, then send in to have made gapless. You pay for shipping the rings a few bucks more that way, but it is much easier to file a normal ring than the thinner gapless. You still have to file down the gapless rings to the proper size and you need to be more careful with thinner rings. Coming already made gapless before you size them will add more time and effort to your build- but if you are already going to file 16 times, 8 more times won’t kill ya. Just watch YouTube how to do it, do the fat rings first to get the feel, and don’t “zone out” while doing it. Pay attention the whole time and make sure you know how to properly break the filed edge when finishing.

I have never found an oil pump for the 6.5 that wasn’t actually made by Melling. Relabeled parts is common place. But you have to be 100% on who is making it and what quality material and quality of spec the component is made to...

Just to help everyone here what was the P/N of the rings you got so if we find that P/N we'll know it is not the cheap ones?

 

[Will L.]

There are other rings that are good and worth having. Several that are better, and depending on what you want this could be wrong for you. There are so many options that you should look into it based on your use. Overheating is by far my biggest concern for choosing these rings. But keep in mind that if someone runs these rings, gapless or not, and push it over 220 for very long- ring wear will be bad. The rings will loose out but should do no damage to cylinder walls until the rings are total garbage from the event.

I am running Chris’s fully coated 18:1 pistons, upgraded pins, pin retainers, (being ultra picky on that clearance) upgraded rod bushings also. Nothing is a 1 part fixes everything. It is a collective combination.
If I was reusing the optimizer pistons and keeping the compression high- I would have saved money and would just do the coatings and could have (and would have) bought the wazoo rings. I still would run those ring gaps on the open end of spec, maybe 3/5-1-6 and 4/5- 7&8 giving up some of the long term life in exchange for overheat expansion safety net. exact amount based on cylinder trueness and how much crosshatching I can set.
If I can get flowed coated heads to help shed the heat to my amazing radiator- then I can tighten up the ring gap more to minimum spec where we would all love to get it.

 

[Rodd]

There are other rings that are good and worth having. Several that are better, and depending on what you want this could be wrong for you. There are so many options that you should look into it based on your use. Overheating is by far my biggest concern for choosing these rings. But keep in mind that if someone runs these rings, gapless or not, and push it over 220 for very long- ring wear will be bad. The rings will loose out but should do no damage to cylinder walls until the rings are total garbage from the event.

I am running Chris’s fully coated 18:1 pistons, upgraded pins, pin retainers, (being ultra picky on that clearance) upgraded rod bushings also. Nothing is a 1 part fixes everything. It is a collective combination.
If I was reusing the optimizer pistons and keeping the compression high- I would have saved money and would just do the coatings and could have (and would have) bought the wazoo rings. I still would run those ring gaps on the open end of spec, maybe 3/5-1-6 and 4/5- 7&8 giving up some of the long term life in exchange for overheat expansion safety net. exact amount based on cylinder trueness and how much crosshatching I can set.
If I can get flowed coated heads to help shed the heat to my amazing radiator- then I can tighten up the ring gap more to minimum spec where we would all love to get it.
View attachment 60290

Thanks again Will!!!

 

[emmott]

I would recommend purchasing pistons with rings then sending the 8 - 2nd rings in to be machined by Total Seal, cost is 10$ per ring + 15$ setup then shipping back to you.. then you know the quality of rings you have..

Hey Chris, is there anyone I can contact directly at Total Seal for machining the new #2 rings I have? I'm having trouble finding this option on their website.

 

[Twisted Steel Performance]

Tech support or sales.... just tell whoever answers the phone what you want, they should send you to the right person... I would half to look up the rep I talk to, I don't remember his name right off...

 

[emmott]

Thanks! Just got off the phone with tech support, it's as easy & simple as you said, "cost is 10$ per ring + 15$ setup then shipping back to you".
They said to just mail the rings directly to their business address, provide contact information for billing in the shipment, then they would reach out to me once they have the rings. No preferred courier, long as they get them they're happy.

 

[Will L.]

Just do your end gap sizing before sending. Then put each ring in it’s own ziplock bag labeled by cylinder number.
Add piece of paper telling why they are labeled.

Otherwise you get to gap them afterwards and the tiny rings too.

Even if they send them back in one pile, you can determine which goes where.

 

[Twisted Steel Performance]

You will need to do your own gaping on the thin ring, they won't do it for you, I prefer to do the gaping once I get them back and do all rings at the same time... but that's just how I like to do it... they won't bother to look at the baggies ...

 

[ak diesel driver]

My experience with gapping rings is I've never had to file any. I've always checked them but never had to file any.

 

[Will L.]

Wow. Thats some good luck there, or you need to build more and let the law of averages catch up to you! Haha

 

[ak diesel driver]

That's over about 15-20 engines