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Real time tuning for OBDII 6.5's? maybe.....just maybe

great white

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As some of you know, I've recently started tuning my 98 6.5 with RTOBDII (tunercatsII) from Moates.

It was not an inexpensive propostion.

It works really well, but I've been longing for real time tuning.

IOW, you install and emulator in your PCM and your laptop can make changes on the fly to the program. This saves immeasureable time tuning and it also allows you to see what a change to one parameter does right away rather than a whole flash for one item.

Problem is, no one makes an emulator for a 6.5

Or do they?

Here's the skinny on what I've been "collaborating" on:

The OBDII pcm's use a 32 leg PLCC format flash chip. That is, it's a square chip and it has legs on all four sides.

Moates sells an "ostrich 2.0" emulator and by coincidence, our chip is one of the target supported chips. Problem is, it's meant for a DIP format chip. IOW, a rectangular chip with a row of legs down each side.

The other problem is there's no 6.5 OBDII software to support the Ostrich 2.0

So here's what I have on the go after talking to Craig ove at moates .net.

Tunercat I supports the Ostrich 2.0 natively. He's going to contact TC and see if Ostrich 2.0 support can be added to RTOBDII. If that happens, all that will need to be done is build a header to adapt the PLCC surface mount to a DIP ribbon cable to use an Ostrich with tunercatII and our PCM. That's where I come in and fab up a prototype.

I've suggested to Craig that a package selling for around 6-800 bucks might be well recieved by the community if this works. I haven't received a response on that suggestion, so no news there yet.

I think it would be well worth the price to tune your own PCM in real time instead of paying 500 bucks for each flash most guys seem to ask. Of course, you also gain the knowledge (or inexperience) of the tuner for that 500 bucks. You'd be one your own with a real time tuner on a 6.5, at least until enough guys get some experience with it.

It's a long road with lots of land mines along the way, but it may happen.

Fingers crossed...
 
I would love to affordably be able to make little tweaks on my rig. Specifically TCC speed and fuel shifting parameters.

Good work GW. Keep it up.
 
600-800 bucks to tune our own pcms in real time. sign me up. dont get me wrong i love my kojo tune but that would be something fun to play with and make it even more to your liking.
 
oop, look what google turned up for me:

PLCC44.jpg


http://www.emutec.com/pjetadpt.html

If TC can add ostrich support, this may actually happen easier than I thought....
 
This really sounds tempting. I'd love to see what changes I can make to the 'burb as it is now completely stock in terms of electronics.

Keep going dude!

-Rob :)
 
You have my support, sign me up as well for this. I'd be ecstatic to be able to tune both Big Blue and the Green truck on the fly like that!
 
I need to get on here more often... I have been working on my car and buggy so my truck is just getting driven right now but come summer I plan on adding a ATT so being able to tune it myself would be awesome cause I really want to push the limits of this motor this summer since I should have 2 other options for transportation if it breaks. Sign me up for sure.
 
I need to get on here more often... I have been working on my car and buggy so my truck is just getting driven right now but come summer I plan on adding a ATT so being able to tune it myself would be awesome cause I really want to push the limits of this motor this summer since I should have 2 other options for transportation if it breaks. Sign me up for sure.

You already can tune it.

Options:

1. 2 grand from westers and get the complete tuning suite

2. Moates RTOBDII tuner for around 800 bucks and Westers VDF for 100 bucks

3. Find a used tunercat II program for whatever cash you can and westers VDF for 100 bucks.

4. make your own tuner program, interface hardware and crack the PCM yourself.

"Real time tuning" as I'm exploring requires you to already have option 2 as Tunercat I already support the Ostrich 2.0 and it may be possible to add support to RTOBDII (rebranded tunercat II) for the Ostrich 2.0 realatively easily.

But that's pretty much up to John at Tunercat (the original programmer)......
 
do they offer a downloader that you can load all your different tunes and directly download them through the obd2 port or is the only option to manually take out pcm and download from computer
 
do they offer a downloader that you can load all your different tunes and directly download them through the obd2 port or is the only option to manually take out pcm and download from computer

Not sure exactly what you're getting at, but:

RTOBDII (tunercat II) uploads though the OBDII port in the truck. No need to remove the PCM.

Ostrich 2.0 installs into the PCM and you upload and down load to that "real time" through a USB type cable.

Either way, the PCM doesn't have to be removed for flashing.

:)
 
Not sure exactly what you're getting at, but:

RTOBDII (tunercat II) uploads though the OBDII port in the truck. No need to remove the PCM.

Ostrich 2.0 installs into the PCM and you upload and down load to that "real time" through a USB type cable.

Either way, the PCM doesn't have to be removed for flashing.

:)

alright thanks for the info. I wasnt sure how it worked completely. can you save different files that have different changes to it
 
I've put out some queries to the EFI live folks, hopefully we can get them to come to the table with some neat tools

sorry but i doubt that will happen at all. there working on cummins stuff and i was looking at some threads at another site and they said they have no plans in the future support vp44 equipped cummins which has a lot bigger aftermarket and potential for power than a 6.5. I wish though!
 
I've put out some queries to the EFI live folks, hopefully we can get them to come to the table with some neat tools, but what you are playing with holds some glimmer of hope as well, if not real time, better than no time wor send away tuning that we have as options now.

I have a place where I can make a tweak here/there and then run it to see if things get better or worse, so semi-real time maybe with stuff you are playing with ?

I've had a couple email convo's with the efi live bunch. A while back there was some talk of 6.5 support, but it was abandoned due to the amount of work involved and the limited amount of money (IE: small market share) they could make on it. Basically, not economically viable.

Now, if you want a flash based setup, you can order RTOBDII from moates.net for around 800 bucks shipped (it's 800 bucks because you have to buy a roadrunner "guts kit" to go with the program) and buy the VDF from Westers for 99 bucks and you're up and running. You have to flash the entire PCM program at once (IE: trans, engine, etc) and then run it. Pretty much what any of the 6.5 capable tuners are doing out there right now with OBDII.

What I'm working on is an emulator that replaces the flash chip in the PCM. This will allow you to make changes to any part of the program while the truck is running. You will still require the $800 RTOBDII from moates and the $99 VDF frm westers. The Ostrich 2.0 is aorund $200 IIRC and whatever it's going to cost for a DIP type surface mount chip to a PLCC type chip (think: rectangular to square).

Why would you want to do this?

Well, you make a change to a fuelling table, dirve it, don't like it, change it, drive it, etc. If you can't do real time tuning, you have to shut down the truck, take the program you flashed, change the parameter and then flash the whole program again.
 
alright thanks for the info. I wasnt sure how it worked completely. can you save different files that have different changes to it

You can save as many flashes as you want on your laptop, but you have to flash each complete one into the PCM.

Currently, there is no way to have multiple "switchable" tunes on the OBDII 6.5 flash chip if that's what you're asking.

:(
 
You can save as many flashes as you want on your laptop, but you have to flash each complete one into the PCM.

Currently, there is no way to have multiple "switchable" tunes on the OBDII 6.5 flash chip if that's what you're asking.

:(

no i was asking about the laptop software and saving different tunes, i know about the no switchable tunes on obd2. btw whats with TD's post being marked with the wrong timedate
 
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