Pop-Up Camper Inverter

[treegump]

Not sure if this should be here or Electrical, but I have retrieved my second inverter from a pop-up camper that I dismantled.

I think I eventually scrapped the first one.

But this second one is a bit beefier, and there was a heater, a/c, and built in plugs - therefore it seems like the inverter might be a bit better?

Any ideas of what I could use this for? Could I hard wire it from my fuse block and use it for electronics in a vehicle?

Or build a box and run wires to the bed so that I can use it as a portable unit?

I know I need to find the specifics on the unit - which I'll hopefully do before tomorrow - but wanted to see if anyone has done anything with them..

 

[Will L.]

My old neighbor used them to run power tools like a drill, saws all. I use one to charge my dewalt batteries.

Do not wire in from your fuse box. Come off the battery with a megafuse and a relay or solenoid depending the size. The demand for power is too high. You need to find what size it is. Old ones are horrible compared to what's out there now.

On the disassembly of a pop up that had a/c and heat, if it's a junker then no worries. But if it is salvageable- those lil dudes get decent cash now, at least out here.

 

[treegump]

What's decent cash and should if I were to build a power station with it, would it be a good idea to buy a separate 12volt battery to have it run off, and run a cable from the alternator to the battery?

 

[treegump]

Here are pictures of the inverter.

 

[Will L.]

That is a converter not an inverter (opposite). That has to be plugged into 110v house supply or a generator to charge a battery and supply 12v to the camper. Basically a small battery charger and a couple breakers to add safety for the 110 in use at the camper. That does not change 12 volt dc into 110 volt ac.

If you do get an inverter, about the separate battery: how often are you going to use it, and for how long? If heavy usage then yes, if your adding it just cuz it's around and you may use it one day then don't bother.

Value of a camper is like a rig, depends mostly on condition, make,year. If it's old,useable, ugly, and a/c and heat work, about $850. If it within 10 years and looks decent with everything working, $2,000 range. Really just look at some for sale in your area in the same condition.

 

[treegump]

Oh, poo. So the converter isn't really worth anything. Unless.... I work at as a maintenance supervisor and we have 12 volt systems that we don't have a way of testing, unless we have a battery lying around... haha

And I'm not going to worry about an inverter unless I just happen to come across one. But, it'd probably be more on the rare side of usage.

 

[Will L.]

Extra battery charger though. Maybe Craigslist or eBay the parts you've pulled off. Extra $ doesn't get in the way too often.

 

[treegump]

I googled this, forgetting that I had posted this question. As I'm reading it, I think "this is exactly how I got mine*,

 

[JayTheCPA]

FWIW, some converters did have inverter capability. Am not so sure this one does and suspect that the 110v outlet is a mere surge protected outlet for when connected to shore power. From what I am seeing on the 'net, this unit does not charge coach batteries at all and is only for supplying 12v current for lighting and other similar loads. Will not surprise me if it is rather high in RF generation.

Seeing as this unit is ~20 years old and arguably should not have gone into the RV in the first place, it is an excellent candidate for taking it to the scrap facility and converting back to a few $$.

 

[treegump]

FWIW, some converters did have inverter capability. Am not so sure this one does and suspect that the 110v outlet is a mere surge protected outlet for when connected to shore power. From what I am seeing on the 'net, this unit does not charge coach batteries at all and is only for supplying 12v current for lighting and other similar loads. Will not surprise me if it is rather high in RF generation.

Seeing as this unit is ~20 years old and arguably should not have gone into the RV in the first place, it is an excellent candidate for taking it to the scrap facility and converting back to a few $$.

Good to know. I actually saved it from the scrap bin that I've been lugging around because (again) I completely forgot I had asked about it already.

So - just curious - what is utilized by RV's and Travel Trailers to convert 12v to 120v? Surely you don't need to wait to plug into 120v in order to use any receptacles, do you?

 

[JayTheCPA]

Most trailer and camper RV's will need shore or external generator power for the 120 outlets and appliances / utilities. Have not checked on newer RV's and suspect that they might come with limited inverter supply (maybe one or two outlets) as the currently technology is much more efficient, lighter weight, and less costly than stuff from 20 years ago.

Motorcoaches have had inverter power as an option for a while, but it really depends on how the thing was built in terms of whether just an outlet or two which gets inverter power, or the whole rig gets power to include the appliances. Another factor for the motorcoach community is that the RV usually comes with allowance for an onboard generator which is able to use all but the last 1/4 tank of the motor's fuel.

One thing to remember is that a greater demand for 120 inverter usage calls for bigger banks of batteries. More batteries calls for more weight and cost. Seeing as trailers tend to come with allowance for just one or two Group 29 batteries, there is not much energy capacity to go crazy with 120 items. Adding a larger battery bank is easier on a motorcoach as customers are generally less concerned about operating costs compared to trailer owners, and a big bank of lead is relatively nothing to a bus frame.

Lithium is starting to crack open the door for wider inverter adoption in the trailer / camper community. But up-front pricing has this outside of most people's budget.

 

[treegump]

The main reason I started this whole thought process again was because I am supposed to get a free gas generator.

But - my thinking is/was - why can we get 220v 30amp power from a tiny gas generator when there are so very many large gas & diesel motors around us. Why can't we harness our vehicle motors for this power?

 

[ak diesel driver]

You could but it would be a thirsty generator. Ideally would be to use an inverter generator like the Honda EU series. Very economical as it doesn't have to run a constant rpm to get the hertz right, so it only uses enough throttle to maintain the load

 

[JayTheCPA]

From a fuel perspective, it is better to size the motor to the load. The smaller motor in a generator is a perfect size for its load rating.

I have run a big V8 turbo diesel truck for a few days just to power a fridge at my house and to run a carpet vac at a friend's house after what was left of a hurricane took-out power. Setup was simple as I hooked a 30A 120v inverter to the truck. The motor really did not like that duty much as it was basically a lot of fast idling and barely any load from its perspective.

Toward looking at getting the 'free' power out of the vehicle's alternator, might consider to calculating how many watts are necessary to power the misc pieces of equipment / toys and then figure out how much of a battery array is required to power that stuff. For now, ignore the cost of the inverter. When doing the math, make sure to consider that lead batteries only allow use of something like 50% of their amperage rating. Then calculate how long it will take to recharge a depleted battery bank based on the alternator's rating and loss from gauge and length of wiring.

Another consideration is recharge time based on charge profiles of the battery. A huge bank of wet cells will take a loooonnnnggg time to get back up to full charge. AGM's will get there a little quicker than wet cells. Lithium will suck as much power as the alternator will put-out and get to 100% SOC a *lot* quicker than lead. One warning about charging a lithium battery bank is to make sure safeguards are in place to eliminate the risk of overheating the alternator or blowing-out its voltage regulator; also, will need to make sure that the vehicle battery does not cook. A DC to DC converter should mitigate the vehicle sides risks of charging the lithium bank.

There are some lithium power 'generators' available to supply 120v, and it is only a matter of money in terms of which one will power all the goodies.

 

[treegump]

Here is another option (which I apparently forgot about even though I found it last night):

FAQs

realacpower.com

The NV4500 on my 96 had a PTO plate. And my new 06 F350 also has a PTO plate on it's auto transmission.

No idea on how much it would cost - but this would also be a very handy tool.

From a 2004 farm show article, it says it's a $4k investment.

From a trucktrend article: Available generator models: 12kW, 15kW, 30kVA, 60kVA, 90kVA, 120kVA, 150kVA, 180kVA.

 

[Will L.]

What exactly are you trying to run?

 

[Will L.]

The other part about converters that are also inverters makes no sense to me. 10% loss going either way means you have a quality unit. But to take 120v ac, change it to 12v dc you just lost 10% of the power and turned it into heat and wear& tear on the electronics. To then loose another 10% to go back to 120vac? Huh?
They sound similar, but it really takes two different units. They might take two compact units and shove them i to one box for convenience of installing in the rv world, but really makes no sense otherwise. It’s like turning on your a/c to cool it down in the house, but light some logs in the fireplace cuz it’s chilly.

 

[treegump]

It’s like turning on your a/c to cool it down in the house, but light some logs in the fireplace cuz it’s chilly.

Are you spying on my wife? Haha

 

[JayTheCPA]

What exactly are you trying to run?

I agree, what are we trying to do here?

The smallest Real Power unit of 7kW is enough to power my entire house with only a little bit of energy management in play. In a true emergency situation, I only need ~3kW / 240V and put up with cold showers. If I want hot water from the electric tank, I step-up to ~6kW / 240V.

FWIW, a quality portable ~6kW gas generator capable of 240V is is lighter than Real Power's 7kW unit (listed as 200 pounds) and their other lightest unit of 12kW (listed as 175 pounds). Cannot determine price comparability seeing as Real Power is a direct-sell company and does not advertise its price list. From what I have seen of tractor PTO powered generators, I lave low confidence that Real Power's product line is less expensive than a portable generator.

Here is another option . . .:

FAQs

realacpower.com

Found a couple notable quotables:

"Your truck will need at least a diesel engine and an AUTOMATIC transmission with PTO option." [Emphasis added]

"The Real Power Chassis-Mounted AC Generator System is the perfect mobile AC Power solution to charge your Electric Vehicle (EV) while in a remote location or while performing covert testing."

So their marketing department thinks that the EV community will actually believe this? That makes about as much sense as telling the hydrogen vehicle community that it is Ok to use fossil fuels to generate the hydrogen. Then again, perhaps the EV community might bite as they are known for super cheap-ism to the point where I am starting to see locks appear on outside power outlets and letters to the community in general that state things like: 'No, it is NOT Ok to plug-in your car at while at school.'

And while on the topic of marketing, their narrative is all over the place as one statement starts the bottom end power as 20kVA, another statement claims 70kVA, one chart shows 7kW, and another chart shows 12kW. Should we wait a while for them to figure out the final answer?

From what I am seeing, using a Real Power device requires that the vehicle is stationary as its interface will essentially take-over the throttle in order to maintain AC power within tolerances. This does make sense and just rules-out use for charging a battery bank while driving.

Also, not sure what the requirement of an automatic transmission is about seeing as G56 and ZF manual transmissions units are capable of handling a lot of torque and sit in back of drive-by-wire diesel motors.

 

[treegump]

What exactly are you trying to run?

Nothing yet - just throwing a theoretical out there.

Because I enjoy helping and serving others I'm typically going somewhere to do that. How convenient would it be to be able to not depend on extension cords and the power availability of others?

Also - not that our diesel trucks are a quiet alternative, but what about for vacationing or remote working - where there is no power availability?

This was more so for discussion to maximize the utility of our vehicles. If I could power a circular saw, reciprocating saw, battery chargers, chop saw, or other construction tools - that would be great. If I could power high intensity lights or my house if the power went out - that would be even better! If I could power a welder or plasma cutter - something that was 30A 220V, that would be fantastic!

Like I said - just options. A discussion of options. Trying to maximize what we have.