Missy goes full retro

[Missy Good Wench]

Ok boys
Hang onto your Butt

Missy has decided to return to the good O'l days with her 91 Burb.

Got the plan all sorted out now and went out yesterday and bought some goodies to play with.

I am tired of electronics that fail and trannies that fail and lights that blink and all that sort of thing.

Decided that along with the 6.2 diesel coversion into the 91 that I am going to install a real jewel of a tranny and T case setup.

OH yeah buddy
Went out yesterday and bought a TH350 coupled to an NP 203 T case.

Yup the old FULL TIME sucker.

Found one from a 1976 Chevy 1 ton thats in fairly good shape. The Tcase seems fine but the tranny had issues with second gear.

Missy can fix it. :thumbsup:

With 35 inch tires the little 350 can do the job sweet and highway RPM's will be around 2150 at 60 MPH.

I dont really do much long haul driivng anymore so the need for an OD is not an issue.

Actually my 94 Burb with the 4L80 will spin along at around 2100 at 60mph even with the OD (stock tires and 4.10 gears)

The TH 350 is a damned good box in my opinion. Been through many in my time and have seen these little suckers take a beating behind even a 454 and live to tell about it.

The venerable old 203 box with the all time drive is a sweet setup.
Hardly ever need to touch the T case shifter unless it really nasty.
The interaxle differential keeps power flowing to all four all the time.

On road handling is superb especially on such things as loose footing (gravel roads)

Been dreaming about doing this and the time seems right.

Little if any issues to getting this tranny T case setup into the truck.

Little mods likely to the floor for the older style shifter.
Addition of a vacuum switch to run the modulator.
Drive shaft mods to fab a non slip yoke rear shaft
Scrounge up a CV jointed front shaft. (Blazer, Burb pickup 73-79)

The one issue I am pondering is the easiest way to get a signal to the electric speedo in the 91 dash.

The 203 has a cable driven speedo.

I may be able to do some machine work in the back housing and install the reluctor ring from the 241 and then modify the housing to accept the sensor.

Not an insurmountable obstacle but will keep Missy thinking for a while.

Called a few places yesterday and the answer varied from NOT DOABLE to WELL I can sell you these goodies here for a BAzzzilion $$$ and it will work.

Worst case scenario, use an older style speedo and install a cable ):h

Once all done this little setup should be sweet.

The 203 and the 350 were never used with a 6.2.

I swapped a TH350 into an 82 K Blazer with a 6.2 back in the late 80's
700R went splat all over the street and the goodies to make a 700 were spendy $$$$$$$$$$$ and used ones tough to get (Cheap)

Used a Transdapt kit to keep the T case in the same spot (700 is longer)

Ran that box for a loooooooong time
In that setup I kept the 208 T case.

This time I want to go for the gusto and put together what I consider the best of the lot as far as reliability.

The little 6.2 may not be a rocket but they were reliable.
The TH350 with a good shift kit was very dependable and well not quite bullet proof but close.
The NP 203 T cases were darned good. The chains would on ocasion give trouble but when left stock (without part time mods) these boxes were very tough.

This package when complete should comprise some of the most dependable components that GM ever offered.

The 91 Chassis was the best of the OLD (Brick/Box) body style.
These trucks had the nicest interiors of the style. The accessories were mostly trouble free.

The heater controls were very basic with little to go wrong.
The dash is easy to see and had little in the way of troubles as far as the intruments go.

Seating is roomy and comfortable and the visibility for the driver is acceptable.

The ride with the front/rear leaf springs is not at all bad but not the cushies that many have come to know on the GMT 400 and 800 trucks.

Durability of the front axle components is far better than the IFS stuff.

Cheap to fix and very tough

Now for the best part

This rig when complete will not have a need for a computer to make it go.

Many will find fault with this build but thats ok, I have always marched to the tune of a different drummer

So in a few days I will go pick up my 350/203 heap and drag it home.

Yessssssssss

Missy is happy now. Got a pile of fresh scrap iron to play with.


MGW

 

[Acesneights1]

Oh mannn. Too bad you didn't live closer. I got a 205 case for that tranny. I personally don't like shift kits with TH350s. Always felt they shift hard enough stock. Shift kit usually blows either the TC or the sprag for 2nd gear which is probably whats wrong with yours. Of course that's behind a high rpm gasser. Not bad tranny if those parts are upgraded but no substitue for a TH400. I'll tell ya this much... I got my LMC truck free catalog in the mail yesterday and DAMN...Everything you could e er imagine and cheap too. A must have for this generation.

 

[just a number]

I had one of those 203 transfer cases in an 79 burb. onther than the power loss(only had a 350) I only manged to get the thing stuck once or twice. that was in snow with the street tires on. and it still took over 6" to do it:thumbsup:

one word from experience. the plug in for the dashes look the same but the wiring is different. :mad2: trust me.

 

[Detroit Dan]

I am SO needing an 85 (or so) to 91 Suburban. Looking at one now that's a project. Can't beat that body style, I actually prefer the older stacked quad headlights to the cool little ones. I had a 91 Blazer/Sub nose on an 81 truck, it looked cool but with 7 inches of lift over 35s, the little headlights were useless.

I have broken a lot of mechanical components in my time, th350s are among the better in my opinion. Not saying I haven't broken them, I have, but they are darn near as good as a 400. I actually had a th350 behind a 475 hp 396 in a 73 Camaro I raced, and while I had little difficulty breaking cranks, I never once hurt that tranny. And I could carry the front tires through first gear.

 

[Detroit Dan]

I had a 79 k10 with a 350, th350, NP203 fulltime case and 36 inch tires with a 3:08 gear. Nice driving truck, but I busted the front axle in short order. Then put 3/4 ton axles with 3:73s under it, eventually I ended up with an LT1 350, th350 and a 205 case. Broke the "unbreakable" 205 case right in two. Trans mount was a little sloppy and that's all it took. I've stretched out chains in part time 203 cases, for some odd reason I have been unable to hurt the case in my 97, I think it's an nv475 or some such number. Been trying to break it for years, and it just keeps working.
I should be on the payroll at GM, torture testing driveline components....

 

[bk95td]

I had 3 different gm trucks with the 203 case. I loved them. Never a single problem. It's a near perfect set-up. 4wd always at less than 45mph. I still have a 76 3/4 ton 400 ci t350,np203 and 4.10 gears.

 

[625fireman]

I saw somewhere on the web that there is an adapter that will work the electronic speedo off the cable drive. Dont remember where or a cost but they are out there.

 

[just a number]

I remember seeing them too. It cost me less than half of it to change the dash back to a cable drive.

 

[83GMCK2500]

In regards to your speedo issue, I happen to have a cable driven DIESEL cluster out of an 84 K2500 sitting in a box in my apt. I keep meaning to list it on ebay, are you interested?

Edit, it even has a clock in the blank spot...not sure whether the clock works or not, but I've seen a couple NOS ones on ebay recently.

 

[bobbiemartin]

The one issue I am pondering is the easiest way to get a signal to the electric speedo in the 91 dash.

The 203 has a cable driven speedo.

I may be able to do some machine work in the back housing and install the reluctor ring from the 241 and then modify the housing to accept the sensor.

Missy, This place has several options for your electric speedo problem. Lots of good info there.

 

[Matt Bachand]

I had a 79 k10 with a 350, th350, NP203 fulltime case and 36 inch tires with a 3:08 gear. Nice driving truck, but I busted the front axle in short order. Then put 3/4 ton axles with 3:73s under it, eventually I ended up with an LT1 350, th350 and a 205 case. Broke the "unbreakable" 205 case right in two. Trans mount was a little sloppy and that's all it took. I've stretched out chains in part time 203 cases, for some odd reason I have been unable to hurt the case in my 97, I think it's an nv475 or some such number. Been trying to break it for years, and it just keeps working.
I should be on the payroll at GM, torture testing driveline components....

Cuz you got the good Borg Warner! I was up for 30hours straight sanding, and I tried to back up a hill (truck in sig) with 2.5 yards wet mix and plow loaded I weighed neighborhood of 22,000 - 24000lbs. I lost traction in 4hi, so I went forward to approach from the top (scary stupid steep street). Dead tired, dummy me never took it out of reverse... rolled forward from weight about 20 feet, and hit the go pedal!!! Damnit! Blew reverse Clean out of the truck... didn't even know it until i went to the top and couldn't use R to steer my 3 point turn approach.

Barg Warner still lives to tell tail. Tranny rebuilt in sig due to that. 2200$$ oopsie....

I plowed 2 17hr storms following with NO REVERSE lol. That was tricky! Never got stuck. Corners weren't as neat as possible, but what the hell....

 

[EchoEagle]

wooo! thats gonna be nice!! My Dad still has his 76 V-20 350/350/203, and when the new junk won't go... it's back to old faithful... that truck is unstoppable.. I mean, damn, I drove it when I was 16-17 and I couldn't break it!

 

[mr_goodwrench_06]

That t-case you are getting rid of is quite desireable to some people...It allows the use of a GM front axle on a SFA conversion and have the speedo still work. I'd be inclined to buy it off ya to sit in my garage "just in case" if you lived closer...

Bill

 

[Missy Good Wench]

The best shift kits are those made by Transgo

The TH 350 can handle just about anything that I will ever throw at it.


bk95td
The 203 has all wheel drive at any and all speeds. There are no differences in how the 203 works that is speed dependant.

The interaxle differential allows the power to flow from the transmission through to the T case input and then the power is "divided" through the interaxle differential and from there flows to the front and rear axles.

If the rear axle has a locker the setup is near perfect.

With the T case in either H or L and loosing traction totally at one wheel will result in ZERO motion. At this juncture, placing the T case in the H loc or L loc will then allow power to flow equally to the front and back as the interaxle differential is locked out.

The only time that one can even tell that the full time is working is if you crank the wheels all the way to the stops and get on it hard.

The front U joints will cause a slight wobble feel in the steering wheel.

Under normal driving the system is as close to perfect as possible.

I had a 203 in a 76 Ford F250 4x4 and it was a beast. Rarely had to place the case in lock.

I am still looking for a set of the splined hub slugs that were used with the Full time cases along with the little chrome caps that tap into the spindles.

If anyone has a set of these for a 1/2 ton sitting around, let me know.

Missy

 

[john65td]

I use to have a 1985 3/4 6.2 sururban man i loved that truck it had detroit lockers front and rear 3.73 gears i could never get it stuck no matter how hard i tried. that was my first truck and i beat the snot out of it and it held up and took it. still miss the ol reliable 6.2 good luck missy can't wait to see it finished

 

[Turbine Doc]

Check with member 1twisted one he's done this IIRC

 

[Missy Good Wench]

Thanks Doc

Most of this stuff is gonna be a snap.

Gives litle old Missy something to fool with.

Keeps my mind sharp doing these backyard engineering things dont ya know

MGW

 

[Missy Good Wench]

John65td

Thanks
I am in no hurry.

My timeline goes something like this.
Drag the 350/203 home next week and get it stashed for the winter.

Get the 87 diesel Burb ripped apart and the old tub outta my shop.

Tear into the 6.2 from the 87 and see what is inside and make sure its a solid foundation

(runs good but ya never know) ?????????????

Once the engine, tranny, Tcase and such are all ready to go, then come spring and good weather I will do the swap.

Winter here in the NW is not a good time to be working outside.

The 91 project rig runs ok and I can run it all winter so it wont get damp and moldy or at least the rodents wont find it.

Missy

 

[Matt Bachand]

NIce missy... gives you time and patience to find all the little goodies you desire too...

 

[Missy Good Wench]

OH yeassssssss on the goodies.

The 91 really does not need much to make it a great rig.

I want to paint the hood or find a black one that has good paint (Flakey on the hood but great over the rest of the truck)

I would like to install a light bar and some HD road burners up top.

I have (4) 8" 2 Bazzzillion candlepower off road lights from Dick Cepeck

Really would like a winch on this one.

The lift kit and tires comes first then the power plant/tranny swap then we shall see.

The truck already has all the amenities inside that I desire. CD player, etc

My feelings at this time are that once this rig is complete and the way I want it, then I will sell the 94 diesel Burb.

Don't need two Burbs.

Can't justify (or afford) license and insurance on 4 rigs anyway.

Just have to take this project one step at a time.

I was in the shop yesterday (Gun shop) as there was no deliveries for the big truck.

I spent much time online snooping.

Found an outfit that sells a dual stick shifter for the NP203 T case.

Since I dont have a stock shifter anyway and the fact that the factory stuff sucked after it had time and miles on it, this sort of item would be way cool.

I could add a couple "Retro look" pistol grip shifters to the twin sticks.

The price for the shifter setup is reasonable at $185 and comes with the floor boot (dual boot all in one) and all the hardware.

To save $$$$ I may design and build my own just cause I can though.

May have to machine a custom front output for the T case too.
The Burb has a perfectly good GM3R CV joint on the T case end but the case is has the yoke style.

To add insult the 203 did use a Flat flange type output but only on the later cases (78-79) the one I got is a 76.

Early outputs have 10 spline and later have 32.

Now I do have the output from the 208 in the 87 Burb.

I can take the two, machine them and mate the flange end of the one to the spine end of the other and then weld them.

Easy enough to do and I own all the parts.

The Lathe is just sitting there needing a project.

My main focus on this rig is to use as much of the materials that I already own rather than buy new aftermarket goodies.

Tires and wheels dont count however.

I will buy a lift kit though.

I have done lifts with custom locally made springs and such but its a PITA especially when the kits come with everything needed to GITERDONE.

The exhaust system on the 87 is complete and very sound.

In order to save the pipes and get them off the truck I will have to sacrifice the inlet and outlet flanges of the mufflers though.

All the brackets, hangers and such are all in good shape on the 87 so I have a large value in parts there.

Just need a pair of high flow mufflers and things will be sweet

Gonna use the fuel tank and lines from the 87 as all this stuff is in perfect shape.

This stuff will be easy to swap once the engine and tranny are out of the chassis.

These trucks have almost no rust so the parts are perfect.
Just need a couple new connector hoses along the way.

I think most of this stuff can be done fairly quickly too.

I am now toying with the idea of building one of the 700R4 trannies and using it instead of the TH350.

The 700R will make with the NP 203
Although never done by GM the 203 shares the same output shaft size and spline as a 350 and all thats needed to marry the two are either a special short output shaft for the 700R or a custom spacer to sit the 203 back about an extra inch or so.

A spacer would be easy to machine from either aluminum or steel.

Some strategically located piloted bolts to fasten the spacer to the original Tcase adpater would keep the assembly stable once bolted together.

The custom output shaft for the 700R is $160
Not a bad price but just adds more cost to a budgit project.

I am going to need to massage the drive shafts anyway to make things all fit so it makes no sense to worry a lot about an inch or so of Tcase location.

Ah yess just some thoughts.

MGW