GM to introduce mid sized Diesel Truck

[Big T]

http://m.autoblog.com/2013/08/27/chevy-colorado-gmc-canyon-midsize-pickup-trucks-to-get-diesel-e/

I the most interesting new truck will be the Nissan Titan with the 5.0 liter V8 Cummins rated at 300 hp and 550 lbs toque. Can't want until take outs are available to stick on in my Suburban. That would be a perfect set-up for the Burbs. Who will be the first here to do it?


http://www.roadandtrack.com/go/news/photos-nissan-titan-cummins-diesel-engine?click=main_sr#slide-1

 

[WarWagon]

Dodge is coming out with a 1/2 ton with the VM Motori diesel. The 2014 intro will beat GM by a year.
I wouldn't buy one with all the emissions crap on them. The US has gone nuts with the emissions on diesels passing European standards. You get to pay for this with higher diesel prices, lower MPG, and higher maintenance costs when the damn thing actually runs.

This said I wouldn't be dropping a new diesel into anything. You noticed the emissions removal tools and parts are scarce now?

 

[Burning oil]

The US missed a golden age for smaller diesel trucks for sure. A diesel in something bigger than a little Toyota or Nissan.....(mini truck) has been begged for for years, back when diesel was cheaper than gas. GM almost got it with a 1/2 ton, but that should have been a little inline 6 banger like the Holden or South American versions.
Now diesel fuel costs so much its not an atractive power train for me anymore.
I'd by a gasser and convert to Propane or CNG first.

BTW one of my next project attempts is going to be adding propane to my 6.5 :Justwait2:

 

[BoostN]

With the Cummins V8 being so new it'll be a few years before the cost factor is worth it. I'm afraid to know what a new Cummins V8 will cost outside of the truck.

 

[SnowDrift]

A Nissan with a Cummins? That would be as lame as allowing Toyota to enter NASCAR. ...oh, they did that, too.

I can partially understand the guys that buy a Cummins wrapped with a dodge. No one really wants a dodge. They just want a Cummins and it has a wrapper that they put up with. The Cummins/Nissan guys will be quite the treat, I think - almost like a new species. I know that's judgmental, but it's just how I see it.

 

[tanman_2006]

Nah, people argue they want the american made cummins now they will have to take it in a Jap truck while dodge supports a different breed. Honestly surpised dodge didnt get the 5.0 cummins.

 

[GM Guy]

until they offer a manual transmission I wont buy a single damn one of them. I admit, I would buy a Nissan if it had a little 5, 6, or 7 speed manual backing it up before I would buy a big 3 half ton with just diesel/ automatic.

but that is just my opinion, obviously I am not the target buyer...for any company...except maybe pizza hut...

we need to be scared folks. remember when the new tundra came out and that big SOB could outwork a duramax? Imagine how bad the Nissan Cummins guys will be! :O Cummins might want to see if they can snag the patent on the flip out towing mirrors, as I am sure the sterotype will be fullfilled on the Nissan as well.

 

[Will L.]

If they're smart enough to come up with something similar to a small suburban with that diesel in it?

 

[BoostN]

Nah, people argue they want the american made cummins now they will have to take it in a Jap truck while dodge supports a different breed. Honestly surpised dodge didnt get the 5.0 cummins.

Obviously $. Ram went with the cheaper option, less cost= more profits. That same VM Motori company provides Dodge/Ram with other small diesels also.

 

[GM Guy]

VM Motori is owned 50/50 by GM and Fiat, correct?

I know Fiat has its hand in it somehow, and that is why dodge went with them, as dodge is owned by fiat. a motor produced by a different arm of the parent company will be cheaper to buy.

same reason Case IH farm equipment is running Iveco rather than Cummins. Iveco is another Fiat brand, and CNH global is either fully, or at least partly, owned by Fiat. a secondary reason I guess is that Cummins is a little difficult to deal with. you have to be a certified cummins shop to work on a cummins under warranty, apparently being a CIH dealer working on a piece of CIH equipment equipped with a cummins wasnt good enough, it had to be a cummins shop. then, in some areas, the cummins shop didnt have off road engine expertise, just bieng a truck shop, so needless to say from a dealer perspective the move away from cummins was easy.

same reason Gleaner dumped Cummins in favor of the Sisu, an Engine maker out of Finland I believe, that is a division of AGCO, the parent company of Gleaner.

it seems going to an in-house engine is the trend these days...

 

[tanman_2006]

VM Motori is owned 50/50 by GM and Fiat, correct?

I know Fiat has its hand in it somehow, and that is why dodge went with them, as dodge is owned by fiat. a motor produced by a different arm of the parent company will be cheaper to buy.

same reason Case IH farm equipment is running Iveco rather than Cummins. Iveco is another Fiat brand, and CNH global is either fully, or at least partly, owned by Fiat. a secondary reason I guess is that Cummins is a little difficult to deal with. you have to be a certified cummins shop to work on a cummins under warranty, apparently being a CIH dealer working on a piece of CIH equipment equipped with a cummins wasnt good enough, it had to be a cummins shop. then, in some areas, the cummins shop didnt have off road engine expertise, just bieng a truck shop, so needless to say from a dealer perspective the move away from cummins was easy.

same reason Gleaner dumped Cummins in favor of the Sisu, an Engine maker out of Finland I believe, that is a division of AGCO, the parent company of Gleaner.

it seems going to an in-house engine is the trend these days...

Yeah, our case dealer only drives E85 capable dodges because Case and Dodge are both Fiat and E85 makes them more "Farmer Friendly" than the hemi. I told the Head guy (over TX, OK, KS, NE, MS) he should argue for a cummins using bio diesel. He hates the little 4.7L

 

[Burning oil]

Back when I bought my first 6.5 in 92 I said to myself "I dont need a truck this big" but it was all you could get. I learned to love them.
When I go overseas espesialy to Thialand (they love diesel trucks there) I see many Toyota's, Nissan's, Isuzu, Ford, Mitsu.... They are all about the size of a Chevy Colorado (the Isuzu is a Colorado).
All of these choices are very capable trucks IMO the Toyota would get my money followed closely by Isuzu. In Thailand there is so much aftermarket support for these too. I think the Isuzu is made in Thailand?
Anyway we need that size truck here, something with a 4cyl or small 6. Something that gets 30mpg.

 

[Big T]

Not intending to pick on anyone, but I often see the argument that the price differential between diesel and gasoline fuel negates the benefits of running a diesel. It's rare to see that fuel price differential at more than 10% higher for the diesel and most of this year the diesel has been equal to or lower than regular gas here in SoCal. Then consider that the diesel gets an easy 30% better fuel mileage, even better while towing, than its gas equivalent, throw in the longevity and it's a no Brainer on the diesel vote.

Compare my Suburban with 6.5 to its gas equivalent of the 7.4. The 6.5 gets 16 to 17 hwy and 10 to 12 towing. The 7.4 gets maybe 12 hwy and 6 to 8 towing.

I realize the modern diesels with common rail and DPF add complexity and suck the mileage down during regens, but they're still better on the performance. The complexity is just more reason to keep my 6.5 going and stick an Optimiser in when it comes time to replace.

 

[GM Guy]

Yeah, our case dealer only drives E85 capable dodges because Case and Dodge are both Fiat and E85 makes them more "Farmer Friendly" than the hemi. I told the Head guy (over TX, OK, KS, NE, MS) he should argue for a cummins using bio diesel. He hates the little 4.7L

when the next town over's JD dealer built a new building, someone did a burnout on the sidewalk. my college boss/ buddy asked his friend in there, the sales manager, about it, and his first comment was "well, couldnt have been any of our guys, the company trucks are ford."

 

[GM Guy]

I agree Big T, power will be comparable, the low end torque will be monstrous compared to gas, and overall it will be a great unit, but I sure wouldnt want a new diesel off warranty.

I think LB7 duramax is as far as I want to go into the future, but I will definitely still have plenty of 6.5Ls, and will hopefully get to play with an optimizer and an ATT in the future when I get more money.

 

[Burning oil]

Here diesel is $3.74ish. Gas $3.17.
Propane $1.39. CNG probably less than $1.39?

99% of the towing I do can easily be handled by a gasser. Parts are way cheaper for gassers. New Diesel is just not as atractive anymore. 6.5's fall into a nieche (sp?) as they are so cheap to maintain. Based on a pure business desision a new truck would have to be a gasser for me (unless I towed very heavy all the time).

Alittle off topic: Back when I bought my first truck, diesel was $.95/gal. What other product can you think of that has gone up almost 300% from 1992-2013? all the while our paychecks are about the same as 1992.

 

[WarWagon]

Not intending to pick on anyone, but I often see the argument that the price differential between diesel and gasoline fuel negates the benefits of running a diesel. It's rare to see that fuel price differential at more than 10% higher for the diesel and most of this year the diesel has been equal to or lower than regular gas here in SoCal. Then consider that the diesel gets an easy 30% better fuel mileage, even better while towing, than its gas equivalent, throw in the longevity and it's a no Brainer on the diesel vote.

Compare my Suburban with 6.5 to its gas equivalent of the 7.4. The 6.5 gets 16 to 17 hwy and 10 to 12 towing. The 7.4 gets maybe 12 hwy and 6 to 8 towing.

I realize the modern diesels with common rail and DPF add complexity and suck the mileage down during regens, but they're still better on the performance. The complexity is just more reason to keep my 6.5 going and stick an Optimiser in when it comes time to replace.

The 454 gas engine is a better choice than a stock 6.5 TD for towing. MPG is the same. Modern gas engines vs. modern diesel engines towing are 6 MPG vs. 9MPG. Thus the extra cost of diesel being $0.50 to $1.00 more than gas that we still see across the US is a factor. Then add maintenance and emissions system failures that remind you of the 1980's gas engines that were on the hook all the time.

CNG is the cheap way to go now. Dodge has a 4x4 crew cab long bed CNG 5.7 Hemi available to fleet customers NOW. Dodge 4.7 conversions were available fairly cheap when I was looking in 2012. The 5.7 gets better MPG towing I hear as the above 6MPG gasoline number is from a 4.7 Dodge.

IMO Biodiesel isn't a good alternative. B99 isn't any cheaper and will FUBAR an injection system quick if it gets out of line with bugs/water. B99 was one of the big reasons I went with the 1995 6.5 burb. Didn't work out... B99 is the furthest along for any alternative fuel. E85 is just a runner up and Hydrogen is a wet dream. CNG and propane are more or less mainstream by home use and grills IMO.

 

[Big T]

Not seeing that price differential between gas and diesel here in CA.

No way does the 454 get comparable mileage to the equivalent diesel. It's not even close. I have a good friend who used to tow an 11K to 12K boat with a 454 powered Suburban and it got 6 mpg. He now tows it with a 7.3 powered Excursion and it gets 10 mpg. That's a 67% improvement.

I do agree that CNG will gain prominence in the future, mostly in localized delivery fleets like FedEx and UPS. As a result, I bought Cummins stock on the dip back in June and I'm loving the 20% gain.

 

[Drago]

so let get this straight, GM uses a Japanese motor(Izuzu), Nissan is going to use a US motor(Cummins) and Dodge is going with an Italian(Motori)

 

[Burning oil]

Propane cost $2.36/gal less than diesel, roughly $100 PER TANK savings (40 gal tank). That is huge.
I'll sarifice the towing MPGs as I rarly tow anyway.