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Fuel System redone

Paveltolz

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Truck's been running stupid for a long time. Hard to start on cool mornings and, if it doesn't catch and run, it won't start on the subsequent tries unless you A. Crank for an eternity (not good for starter) or B. let it sit for about a half-hour or more and the smoke at start up is worse than 'normal.'
Real bad grey smoke at idle on even warm days after starting. Doesn't go away for quite a while. Clatter and rattler constant after warm up.
IP won't hold timing at all.

Broad brush stroked backstory:
Spring 2013. New "ULSD" IP, rebuilt motor, High Output injectors, Air Dog DF-165 pump (15 PSI which, IMHO and Stan's. opinion, is too much).




Transmission rebuilt with billeted Torque Converter. Ordered it without a shift kit and that's the way the tunes have been built for it but, guess what, I re-read the rebuild sheet the other day and it got a shift kit. No wonder it shifts dumb.
2013 late fall. Went to 'normal' injectors for several thousand miles (truck never felt right).
Truck sat for 3+ years with fuel in it, drained it out before restarting but, never can get all of it.
Air dog failed 500 miles from home (ran better without it)
Stock LP failed 300 miles from home (ran about the same)
Normal injectors apparently were junk as none really sprayed and all popped at 3200 or above (tested myself after AK tried and couldn't get them to go)
21sRising from the ashes.png 11s IP Model DS4 DS5521S.jpg
No I didn't use a fuel additive, 2 stroke additive or otherwise for way to long as I was stupid thinking ULSD pumps don't need it....
Truck still drives ok and accelerates great once it's warmed up but doesn't feel right really. That and coal is too easy to roll so I'm watching out the rear view mirror almost as much as the windshield when accelerating. Rattle and chatter noise never goes away and is so annoying that the truck is a pretty much a hanger queen.

Bill and I have tried repeatedly to get this pig sorted out and have condemned the IP. New tunes that 'work great for everybody else' run stupid and worse than my current tune (grey smoke never goes away and/or it won't accelerate).




So,
New Fuel Tank (arrived today and currently waiting for undercoating to dry).
image0.jpeg
New Tank Sock on the shelf.
New IP on the way.
New set of Bosch injectors on the way.
New LP on shelf and Air Dog has been rebuilt.
New fuel filters on the shelf.

Blow lines out going back to fuel tank, fully drain the tank.
Replace tank and sock (will be interesting to see what that sock looks like).
Replace LP (OEM or Air Dog...not sure yet).
Replace IP.
Replace Injectors.
Hope Bill or Big T make a road trip through here with their TechII scanner so I can properly time the IP.

Should be done next week sometime. I do nothing fast anymore and besides, the injectors and IP aren't expected before Tuesday anyway.
 

EWC

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What is a HT4 cam and do you have the specs ? Have you done a compression test ?
 

EWC

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Reason I ask , took a little bit of work to get my Crane installed . Didn't just " slap it in " .

Why would you buy a cam without knowing the specs ?
 

Will L.

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Funny thing about 6.2/6.5... so few upgrades are offered that when someone makes an upgrade part, everyone makes knock offs so the people that do the r&d to find a good cam to run cant recoup their investment. So they dont share the specs.
Problem with that is, many people that would otherwise buy it now wont because we cant imagine how much it may help or not.

I spoke to Heath about one of his cams for my optimizer. He assured me so worth the money and when it came down to it, a huge part of the improvement was the advance and delay in certain lobes to make up for the driver side exhaust traveling so far before hitting the turbo. Problem is hummer uses center mount turbo so any gains in that department would actually be losses if it actually affects it.

There is a Urova center mount turbo that ModMafia is producing and selling right now, and Urova has a strong reputation for 6.5 improvements for the military. I asked for specs so I can compare what that turbo would do vs an hx45/40 hybrid. Cant get specs- so won’t bother with considering even though because of the oiling and exhaust changes required the Urova with upgraded down pipe would probably be cheaper and MIGHT(?) be better.

The fact that some people will do knock offs doesn’t offset the total loss of sales I think they experience. But that is my side of the argument.
 

Paveltolz

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Why? Confidentiality. If I'm trusted with it, I don't break it. Over the years, I have driven a couple of his trucks with and without the upgraded cam so I knew what results to expect. So, when he offered to build my engine, I naturally ordered the cam too.

Sucks that the Crane (and I imagine most cams) didn't just 'Slap in.' Seems like nothing ever goes in as advertised though. I'm not intuitive either and I take this stuff personally so it's harder on my self esteem than most people.

In other news, new IP, Injectors and Tune arrived today. Looks like a busy week of nights in the garage ahead. Need to drain the tank so I can start with swapping in the new one and working forward....
IMG_0829.jpgIMG_0830.jpgIMG_0832.jpg
 

EWC

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So you had a few test drives and knew the differences in the cammed and noncammed truck . Personal experiences . That's good . I have seen a few parts sellers online and looked at their specs for RV or towing cams . Very close if not the same to stock specs . How did the cammed trucks feel compared to the stock trucks ?
I could have installed my cam and called it good but I wanted to know where it was . I also have a gear drive and between the two , it was off .
 

Paveltolz

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Full disclosure, Bill's been a great friend for over 10 years.

The trucks were his and they felt much more lively, smother, and strong. 0-60 times were averaging 8.5 sec and still pulling hard. Then at 70 it was like the truck was getting second wind and just kept pulling. Got a video somewhere. Trust me, the trucks were far and above what mine was before the cams but, they were better afterwards.

94' and 98 2500 series trucks. One standard cab, long bed the other extended cab. OEM tire sizes and 4:10 rear ends. Turbo Masters, Tunes, Exhaust Kits, standard injectors, HD Lift Pumps and GM-8 turbos. Mine's not as lively but with 3:73s and heavy 31" tires....still a fun ride and it'll catch most other 6.5s that get me off the line.
 

Will L.

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Ya, i should have pointed out the concept Bill described with it sounds like it would do great on a side mount turbo.

I think if people would do an engine dyno stock vs product X, that would really help to sell those items they don’t want to do release specs on. Being able to drive them obviously is proof of it too.
 

Paveltolz

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Rubberized undercoating on the tank is done. Painted it too because I've got too many old rattle cans that need to be used up. Not a 'coat of many colors though...just two.
I've drained 15 gal. from the almost full tank. Drove it 80 miles and now I'll just drain the rest using the LP. Metrum fuel sender says the tank is empty which means there could be anywhere from 5 to 10 gal. still in there.
New Tank, LP, and then get it started. Then the IP later this week and, again, start it. Then the Injectors. Figure I'll eliminate the non-start issues as I go along.
 

JayTheCPA

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Might consider a new FSD as part of the package. Not knocking Bill's, and at the same time it turned out that the skid-plate one that I had was on a slow death cycle which sent me in many paths before I focused on it and pulled it. Went with a Flight Systems by Leroy and the Burb ran great afterward.
 

Paveltolz

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PMD hasn't missed a beat since its replacement under warranty. Appreciate the thought though. I do have a brand new Grey FSD on a Skid Plate mount heatsink still in the box along with a new extension harness... Just in case.
 

Paveltolz

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Out with the old tonight. Ladder bar kept me from getting at the nut for the front strap so I got to mud wrestle with that thing too. Always something in the way. Life I guess
The feed and return lines fought hard to get loose but, persistence pays off and no, I didn't just say Screw It and cut them.

What a mess on top. All of it is diesel mud too. Fun times.
IMG_2667.jpg


Glad I don't have to clean it, just the FSU stuff. Return line is a little loose where it enters the tank so, not pictured, I attempted a fix for that.
IMG_2670.jpg
Figures. RTV to the rescue.

Old sock doesn't look too bad but, you can see all the crumbs and such in the seams.
IMG_2668.jpg
IMG_2669.jpg

There was a lot of floaties in the fuel in the tank..
Glad I made the call to do the tank along with the IP and Injectors. Rooter to tooter as it were.

I'll get the new unit back in tomorrow, new fuel filters installed and restarted. Big windstorm tonight blowing dust everywhere and my knees aren't playing well. A lot of desk jockey time this year and not enough putzing around the yard and garage.

New tank is coated. Won't be able to see it after its in but, that's what I do.
IMG_2666.jpg
 

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Paveltolz

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Injection pump is ready for removal of the three bolts running through the timing gear. Everything is off and out of the way. New injectors are in and torqued down. Just need to put the return lines on the driver side units. Once the new pump is in and the lines on I'll get them attached at the injectors too. Tempted to just spin it with them off until there's a diesel mess....probably not the best of ideas. Glow plugs removed would be better.

New neighbor down the street has a 94 6.5 with no run issues. I'd seen the truck in front of his for a while now and last week I was driving my truck for a change and stopped to introduce myself when I saw him outside working on it.
Me, "There's a familiar sight."
ZB, "Yeah, what's that?"
Me, "A 6.5 with the hood up."
Fortunately he has a sense of humor like mine. Anyway...Long crank, finally starts, runs 10 seconds and dies. Its one of those 'been getting steadily worse' things. Apparently he's been driving and towing with it and only recently learned that his LP has been dead for who knows how long. "I know about gassers but, this is my first diesel."

Have ruled out PMD, OPS, LP, fuel pressure, fuel lines, fuel filter, return lines, grounds, ECM. So he's purchased a new IP and Injectors from Quadstar (thanks John) and is waiting for the delivery. He's pulling parts to get ready for the blessed arrival. He'll come over to see what I'm doing, and (borrows a 19mm box end that I've split to get lines off, Injector Socket, goes over manuals blah blah) goes home and does a rinse and repeat on his truck.
Tonight he came over to see the injectors going in and asked, 'should I do the Glow Plugs and where are they?' This is going to be entertaining helping him out too.
 

Will L.

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I learned as a teenager being with a friend and the two of you getting beat up by 6 guys is bad, but getting beat up alone by 3 guys is worse. Knowing you aren’t the only one going through it somehow helps, and when it’s over you have someone keep you from doing dumb things during the anger and to laugh about with afterwords.

So tell him sign up and share in the fun!
Oh, did you do the clear line bubble test on his?
 
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