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Ford Clevor 302 build

Richard Grant

Active Member
Messages
102
Reaction score
86
Location
Williamson Ga
O K gentlemen, this is a great chance to hammer me. I've started collecting engine parts to build a Ford Clevor 302 stroked to 347. I know using 351 W heads makes more sense than using Cleveland heads, this is a "I WANT TO DO THIS BUILD".
This will probably be the last engine build I ever do so I want to build it "old school, like I am". I know this will costs twice what a regular stroked 302 would cost. I will most definitely use modern technology to complement the engine. The top and pistons are coming from Jon Kassee here in Winder Georgia, just a nice drive from me. http://jonkaaseracingengines.com
I am retired and have a somewhat limited income so my wife will need to work more hours. Just kidding!!
Has anyone here ever build one or had any dealings with?
Without going into detail my build time is limited. Thanks y'all, have a great afternoon, Richard.
 
Well it's a 302 Windsor block with 351 Cleveland heads. The heads have 2.19 intave valves, I forgot the exhaust size. It takes a good deal of work plus a little science and a lot of math to make these engines perform. Have you ever done something that makes no sense just to see if you could do it like nobody has thought of? To put it simply I am working on my bucket list. LOL. I APPRECIATE you asking. Thank you sir, Richard.
 
Wrenched on clevland and windsors, never heard of mixing the two. This was in the late 80’s so refresh my memory. Wasn’t the clevland prefered for power/ dragstrip and windsor for longevity/ mpg. And one rotated clockwise and the other counterclockwise?

And if you are figuring on your last build- don’t settle for anything less than perfectly how you want it.
 
Outstanding, your memory is better than mine. The extra large valves with BIG PORTS flowed something like 340 c.f.m. Thats a little big for low end torque so you need to raise the intake port floor. The older engine builers used epoxy and blended. The builder had to be pretty sharp knowing which coolant ports to block off and how to plumb the two heads and engine ports together for proper coolant flow. Yes, the great 80's decade. Great catch on this. Thanks y'all. Richard
 
Bad memories of the 80's... Nothing fing worked, started or stayed running. Vapor lock as fuels transitioned from leaded and they couldn't get the Octane up without light elements that vaporized (Vapor locked) easy especially under the suction of engine driven fuel pumps. Smog pumps esp. on Ford that if the belt broke you were stranded. Smog systems that changed several times during the production year and were so complex that problem solving flow charts were invented. Never mind the primitive electronic injection systems that defined "stupid" and were a real chore to diagnose. NA smoke belching gutless diesel engines esp. the Olds Diesels were so bad they alone brought Lemon Laws to the books. Then there were 6 volt glow plugs that ruined diesel engines when something often went wrong for faster key on to start...
 
MAN, YOU JUST BROUGHT BACK A TON OF MEMORIES. I haven't heard about the Olds diesel in forever. Good thing that. I don't even know where to begin. I better come back on point before I gret in trouble. It's kind of nice to communicate with people that have the same MEMORIES as I do. Maybe more people understand about this Clevor I am GOING to build, even though it makes no practical sense. I want to prove to myself that I remember what I was taught in the very early 70's about racing engines from Mr. Baily and Mr. Phillips. They were the greatest to a to a wild eyed kid. RIP GENTLEMEN.
The Clevor will be built as a hard runner and hopefully for longevity . I will not use a 351W block but instead use the 302. Big bore, short stroke and high RPM'S.
 
What I need is a lot of questions from different folks to make me think. If I miss something in the engine profile it will all be for naught. I've spoken to Jon and he is doing the machine work with out questioning my direction. He's just going to smile. This has to be me. Please ask questions, try to even get me off track. Now that would be fun. Thank y'all, Richard.
 
Any engine build has 4 questions:
How much $
How long do you expect it to last
How hard will you run it
What power levels

I don’t know specifics to your engine build that you really need to research on a classic gas Ford hotrod forum. Things are so drastic one engine to the next. Dodge 360 oilpump is drop in and forget, but AMC 360 requires light machine work for every one installed. Differences like that require very specific knowledge- dont just assume if no one hear says something that all is ok- we just might not know. Do your homework for the small idiosyncrasies.

Hope we can help with some of it.
 
My tablet just went back to the home screen twice. I lost two paragraphs of answers that Will and Diesel Driver ask. I am in a lot of pain right now so maybe I can rewrite it tomorrow. Sorry gentlemen. Richard.
 
Better now: Will, obviously I can't sign blank checks but I am willing to go the extra mile if need be. As far as longevity I do expect the car to be passed down to my grandson. I'm talking maybe 10 years. He goes in the Navy next fall. I will not hammer this engine anymore than it takes to get a base line and tune. Maybe 12 pulles. Then one more to spank my sons behind, just to show him that I still it. Power level. I have a number in mind that I know is obtainable I don't want to let the kitty out of the burlap just yet.
Diesel Driver: your short research earned you the prize egg my friend. Yes YES a thousand times yes YOUR GREATNESS, it will be a BOSS 302. Big honking cast iron blue blood BOSS engine. But not the way everyone expects it to be. Thanks to everyone that has shown an interest in this fun littly red fox project. I invite everyone to take a minute and write a question to me trying to nit-pick this engine apart. Help me to be better.Thanks for your help and understanding. Richard.
 
If I was your son...

Start with @n8in8or 6.5's build.

Short of that pick up an LS2 powered Trailblazer SS or a Jeep SRT 8 and maybe warm it up depending on what your final build can do. Made many spanked on the 1/4 mile Mustang owners ask if the LS2 Trailblazer was supercharged - it wasn't.

Oh sure they could go get a Hellcat "sedan", but, out running someone on the 1/4 in a SUV hurts more.

On the other hand one could go all out with a 3/4 or 1 ton diesel pickup. Just dial the "fuse" in the powertrain from a box tuner. My fuse is the clutch at the moment followed by extended full power towing cooling system limits.

Nostalgia and on topic for this forum hands down would be "FarmTruck"

 
Farm Truck has WAY more money than I. I'm pretty well set on the Boss 302 due to a spirted discussion that involved me in 1986. Remember I said this makes absolutely no sense and only came up again when Gabe bought this new Mustang. I mentioned it to him "bless his heart" and he proceeded to tell me he would beat any Boss302 I could build. Well then, the dye was casted. Sometimes that boy makes me wish birth control could be made retroactive. He does know his neutrons though.
Your post was thought provoking to say the least. I've never seen a Trailblazer with that much power on the track. Y'all have fun, I get to spend the day at Doctor's office. I look forward to that every month Richard
 
I unfortunately don't have any experience with commingling these two platforms together. I have heard that you basically take a dime-a-dozen SBF Windsor whether it be 289/302/351 and slap Cleveland heads on it. The Cleveland heads are a tad bit different in design with offset valves and come in 2v or 4v configurations and flow better than stock Windsors. (4v best for revs and airflow). Then you need to do some work to get your intake to correctly mate and seal with the Cleveland heads on the top of the Windsor block. Its a good way to get more power out of more-or-less stock components on the "cheaper, but not cheapest". Only thing I'm not sure about are the water jackets/ports all matching up like you laid mention to. Obviously it has to or there is a way around it as its been done.

I've got a Ford Lightning F4TE (factory roller capable 351W block) swapped into my 89' Mustang. I actually had it bored out .030 over and installed huge ProComp aluminum 210 heads, flat top pistons and a Bullet Cam in it. I've got a long thread here of the work-in-progress if your interested.

Look forward to seeing pics/progress. Good luck at the Dr's, hopefully they can get you back up in shape!
 
How does your little Fox body like the bigger engine.
I actually can't quite answer that question truthfully yet as its still a work in progress but it gets a little closer each year.

Originally I put the 140K mile 351W bottom end in my car with the ProComp heads and a Trick Flow Stage 1 Cam. The car never ran much better than the old 180K mile 302 I pulled out.

A year later I pulled the engine back out and this time sent it to a "professional" or so called engine builder. After months of missed deadlines and broken promises he finally completed the engine refresh. I reinstalled and took the car for a baseline tune (kept all the EFI equipment for driveability). The car definitely rips now. Much faster than it ever was. I CAN'T get the power to hook on the pavement though, street tires on stock axles. It was estimated (not true dyno) of 390 HP to the wheels. However the engine wants more fuel and something is preventing that. My already upgraded fuel pump may be too small, my ECU had some issues communicating with the tuning software, my stock alternator couldn't handle the twin Ford Contour fan setup I installed which lead to possible communication errors, coolant leaks and the list goes on. This is stuff you don't find till you beat on the car the first few times. So I am slowly in the process of fixing all those issues to go back for a second tune Spring 2018. (Snow and salt on the ground here already so this years done). Tuner says there is more power to be had here.

Its either a love or hate for the 80's vintage mustangs. I didn't like it when I bought it. However it was bought as a fuel mizer for me in college. As you can see that spiraled out of control with trips to the drag strip, Watkins Glen etc. In the end there isn't nothin' like 400 plus HP in a 3,200 pound fully dressed street car. Oh, yes my A/C still works too haha.
 
So tell us about Gabe's Mustang? What exactly you up against? B.S. stops at 1/4 mile or top speed on a track somewhere? :D

Yeah, the Trailblazer SS has 395 HP and 400 LB ft factory from a LS2 Corvette engine. Then you tuned them. If you could keep them out of the shop as GM stupidly put the oil pickup in the front so a good launch would starve the rod bearings, transmissions that would grenade the input drum when a sprag clutch failed, and the use of the factory wrong oil for the posi clutches, power window window wires that would burn them down as well as HVAC wiring issues, topped off by the piss poor GM ignition switch design, and a radiator that was too thin with plenty of recurc issues around the radiator. New aftermarket oil pans and other aftermarket shoved a 4L80E in them as you couldn't build the OEM trans to take it long.

The Jeeps had more factory HP, more gears, and couldn't tow.
 
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