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Direct injected 6.5 development. Any news?

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NW Kansas
Thread starter #1
A year or two ago there was some talk about GEP working on a DI 6.5L project. Possibly with a new injection system as well. Just wondered if anybody has heard anything new. Id like to see this happen, but I dont know if Id be in the market to buy one if it did make it to market.
 

THEFERMANATOR

FRANKENBURBAN
Staff member
Lead Moderator
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Staff #3
I believe it is called the P0400, but it is still IDI. The P0400 new style military HUMVEE engine is an all new design and does use a new style injection system than the origanal 6.5 did.
 
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15
Location
NW Kansas
Thread starter #4
Any info about the injection system on that PO400? This is the first Ive heard about that engine.

I understand that GM tested some DI/HEUI 6.5 variants before dumping it in favor of an all new design (the Dmax). But Jim on the DP said he had direct contact to a development member at GEP who said they were playing with a direct injection version. That was about 2yrs ago. With most everybody moving here I just thought someone might know something. Ill contact Jim and see what hes heard.
 

GM Guy

Manual Trans. 2WD Enthusiast
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#5
well the P400 has been out for a few years, but this is also the first I have heard of the mysterious PO400.

IMO only the injectors and lines would need to change, all of our farm equipment is direct injected and runs fine on roosa master distributor type IPs.(7060 Allis has a DM4 I believe) maybe the injectors dont need to change either, but they surely wont stay in the same place, hence the need for lines.

plus, not needing a new IP would make it more affordable, meaning more folks would be able to justify it.

then again, a tiered system of kits (basic, performer, hot rod, etc) would offer anywhere from just the heads an injectors to a set of pistons, new injection system, exhaust (center mount ATT anyone? :) ), etc.
 
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Location
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Thread starter #6
If all this comes to be I would imgaine it would be like the P400 is. Sold as complete, not parts. Which I understand from their point of view, but I still don't like it! I know Pennisular does sell parts, but I think they "part out" complete engines to get them. Maybe not...

I would also think that if you went DI you'd probably want to keep it on top of a P400 bottom end any way due to the power potential grenading a stock bottom end. However, if the parts were avaliable, then that's up to you! My block had 290K on it and no cracks. The heads were junk so I just as well bought DI pistons and heads and converted when I did the build.

Some of the talk about injection systems included info about new ramp profiles from stanadyne that are 'soft start' and behave similar to pilot injection like the Dmax has. That would be pretty cool in my opinion.
 
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Location
Baltimore, MD
#8
I've been thinking alot about this whole deal, me and a friend of mine have been thinking about deleting the precups and putting in a machined piece that would allow a DI injector (such as older 89-93 cummins) to spray directly to the piston.

Downside is loss of glow plugs, could always use a grid heater like the cummins used. Would also have to make an adapter for the current injector holes to bolt in the cummins injectors. Would also need custom injector lines made.

All in all it would be feasible with the right machine work and combination of parts, I guess we would also have to figure out the correct pop pressure for the new system, and of course tuning for the ds4 guys since timing and everything would have to be altered.

If I had the time, money and spare parts laying around I would most certainly be attempting to do it.

Tyler
 
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Thread starter #9
....a DI injector (such as older 89-93 cummins)...custom injector lines
This is kind of where my idea went too. That way it's not some weird one-off thing that's not upgradeable.(like the injector spider in my 97 Vortec 350)

I also read that Dmax pistons are the same diameter, but the pin to crown height is different. I'm sure you could have a set made with the pin holes bored in the correct place (and diameter) for a 6.5L.

All it takes is money, right?! I'll send you $5 to get you started Tyler... But I want my name on the patent too.
 
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Location
Baltimore, MD
#11
I think the money is better spent on a DI engine, personally. I love my 6.5, but to try and convert it from an IDI to a DI takes away what I love about the IDI.
I agree with you there, this was just an idea that me and my friend have tossed around since i bought my truck. Now there is a possibility that I will be getting a teds engine come tax time so i may keep the old engine around just for shits and giggles, and see what I can do. Not promising anything though.
 
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Location
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Thread starter #12
I also agree.
I love my 6.5 for what it is and even if a DI version was just a phone call away, I'd probably just keep the IDI for what I do. But if I ever had the money I might put a rig together that with a DI that had one purpose, shame the nay-sayers! Now if my engine was to take a dump unexpectedly and a DI motor was avaliable... I almost put a Dmax in my 99 anyway.
 
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#13
Now you have me wanting to really look into this, I'm nearly positive it could be done with the existing platform, its just a matter of finding an economical way of doing it. I'm sure I can find older dodge injectors on Craigslist, same for the grid heater.

I would probably want to drop compression down into the 16-17:1 area. And the duramax piston idea is sounding really good as long as I could get the injectors to fire into the center of them. I would probably do this with a db2 first to figure out where timing would need to be at first, then apply that towards tuning for a ds4.

I think its time to start putting some notes together and have a chat with a few machine shops around my way. Y'all are gonna put me in the doghouse for life if the misses figures out what this could cost to do. But on the positive side it could very well be worth all the pain and agony.
 

Turbine Doc

Just Another Diesel Guy
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#14
I suspect any change from IDI to DI would be driven/mandated as an attempt to make the engine "greener" and not as a power adder. When I was running the CSX/GE locomotive shop in Waycross GA several EPA Tier-X mandates came out that you could do certain things to an engine overhaul, but once you removed an engine old for new that engine had to meet the next up tier restrictions. I don't know where the 6.5 would fall into this mix and how much "grandfathering" of inability to meet emission will be allowed. Probably why the DI project has not been much more than a discussion at this point.
 

Flatbed6.5

New Member
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Ohio
#17
Any info about the injection system on that PO400? This is the first Ive heard about that engine.

I understand that GM tested some DI/HEUI 6.5 variants before dumping it in favor of an all new design (the Dmax). But Jim on the DP said he had direct contact to a development member at GEP who said they were playing with a direct injection version. That was about 2yrs ago. With most everybody moving here I just thought someone might know something. Ill contact Jim and see what hes heard.
Have you been in contact with “Jim” yet. I am very interested in being able to convert my 6.5 to a direct injection
 

Will L.

Well-Known Member
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#18
Have you been in contact with “Jim” yet. I am very interested in being able to convert my 6.5 to a direct injection
It was misinformation about p400 being di. It is a mega strong 6.5 idi
The new ip is just a db4, better top end sustained but had issues at first(hope they fixed it by now) with lower rpm range.

If you want di, duramax. Otherwise the idi 6.5 is still the best mpg and can be built for more power. What was Nates? 600hp 350 torque at the wheels with slush box iirc.

2 points for the zombie thread though! (Fun to read the past) Everybody aim for the head!
 

n8in8or

Well-Known Member
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Kalamazoo, MI
#19
It was misinformation about p400 being di. It is a mega strong 6.5 idi
The new ip is just a db4, better top end sustained but had issues at first(hope they fixed it by now) with lower rpm range.

If you want di, duramax. Otherwise the idi 6.5 is still the best mpg and can be built for more power. What was Nates? 600hp 350 torque at the wheels with slush box iirc.

2 points for the zombie thread though! (Fun to read the past) Everybody aim for the head!
Bass ackwards - 350 horse and 600 torque. Impressive you had the numbers! I just wanted to make sure word of a 600hp 6.5 didn’t start spreading....:D
 
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