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ATT ON A 12V

bigdaddyinacaddy

bigdaddyinacaddy

Obsessed
Messages
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2
Location
Jena, LA
Howdy TTS peeps, long time no talk.

I have recently bought a 89' sclb d350 12v 5speed. Hate to say it but I love it.

Robbing the old red truck of gauges, and it gave me an idea.

ATT on my 12v?

Thoughts, opinions?

Will the ATT hold together @ 40psi??
 
The large ATT turbo generates the same power at lower boost than the HX40II. So I think shooting out a "random" boost number is meaningless. Specifically 23 LBS of boost on a HX40II is close enough to be called the same HP/TQ as 14 PSI on the ATT. http://www.thetruckstop.us/forum/showthread.php?38950-ATT-run-vs-HX40II

I suggest a place to start is the turbo the ATT was biased off of and see where the compressor gets out of it's efficiency range. Aka overspeed where it chokes or grenades.

Likely you will find the other weak links (expensive hot oily scrap parts piles known as power train fuses) before you run out of ATT turbo. :hihi: But that is a guess.
 
I think you will be looking for a qsv to clear up smoke from trying to lug it and having fewer cubes pushing air.

Cummins likes low rpm, 6.5l like high rpm. There will be a learning curve I'm sure.

source unknown
 
Glad you chimed ww. I was hopin to hear from you since technically this was your idea first, I think.

Thing is, I'm gettin 28-30psi w/ the stocker h1c, 52mm comp- ?? Turbine- 21.5cm3 housing
40hp fuel pin, timing bumped up ~7° (14° stock, 20-21° pump advance), fuel screw to runaway backed off 1/2 turn, afc & smoke screw tuned.

Stock turbo is laggy as hell, I don't have a tach yet but I can say for sure it doesn't spool till the last 1/3rd of my rpm range. I'm gov'd to 2700 at the moment, so I don't have much room to work with. I'm hopin even though the cummins is only 5.9l, I can get this baby to spool before 2k. I have a lot of room on my smoke screw (works 0 boost fueling).

If not this will surely be a pointless upgrade until I get a 3200 or 3800 rpm gov spring.

But trust, comparing this cummins to a 6.5 is null, just saying. Before I advanced my timing I saw 1600°egt and 35psi, after its a more manageable 1100 and 28psi. My tires 31.5 stockers will break traction 2-3 and 3-4 in a 5spd if boost is built and I shift fast enough. Just saying, it's not a powerhouse or anything yet, but it is a torque monster.

Might be @ 250-270hp.

Main concerns are the att melting with just one more 1600° run, or overspeeding like you said.
 
The ATT will take a sustained 1550 EGT pulling a grade just fine. Been there done that. It will scorch the turbo blanket a little at that EGT. :sifone:

Watch the engine itself as the 12V's did not like to be run at high rpm and would bend valves. Early or late years had this issue I don't recall. May need some better valve springs?

Retarding timing helps spool the turbo and push EGT's high.

The BD Quick Spool valve was made for the 5.9 and huge turbo's. After running my 2003 with the slow shifting 6 speed I can see why and agree with Tanman - RPM is way lower for the 5.9 and makes a big turbo even more of a challenge.

I have had the debate myself of throwing an ATT and BD QSV at the 2003 5.9 I have. I can't justify it as the MPG is better than the 6.5's (auto) now. More importantly the RPM range is 1K lower and the time to spool after slow shift would really show this. I mean redline is ~3200 RPM.

But if I was to do it I would not even try without the BD QSV. It makes more fun than the $660.00 pay to play entry fee it requires...
 
They did have issues with valve float, that would cause them to get bent yes. It's fixable though with stronger valve springs. That's a requirement if I wanted to install a 3200 or 3800rpm gov spring.

Ok, so the ATT can hang with the temps. Sweet.

I'm not really lookin to spend $600 on a qsv though. I'm not planning on keeping this turbo on forever. Eventually she's gonna have a studded head, 150hp (500% over stock) injectors, and a BW s362. I'm shooting for 400hp. I wouldn't run the ATT at those numbers for fear it's not tough enough.

The main reason I wanted to do this would be only if it spooled faster than the stocker h1c without any extras. The 21.5cm3 housing makes for slowwwww spooling. I'm not lookin for hx40 type spool but anything better than what it is would be nice. How would I even begin to figure out if the att will spool faster without tearing into them? And having a flange made to mate this cummins vband downpipe to the back of this fabbed att?
 
For on the cheap, a used HX-35 would work out OK. Swap over to a 14 or 16 CM exhaust housing and it would work alot better than what you have now. Avoid the CKO HX-40 for the CUMMINS as it can and HAS over revved several of them and made a nice BOOM when they went.
 
I always wanted to try the H1C on a 6.5L. Maybe fit it to the 6.5L, there is more holset/cummins turbo info than 6.5 on cummins info.
 
Well just for the record guys I melted the ATT’s exhaust turbine about two weeks into having it installed. Effectively turning it into a $800 paperweight.
Tried to see about a new cartridge from dennis but I never got a reply. F It. Never again.
I’ve got a he351ve on my 12v now. Runs excellent. Just wanted to update. The ATT made about 37psi for about 37 seconds before it was done. Coulda been worse. If i woulda known I couldn’t ever get a new cartridge for that turbo i woulda never ever ever bought one.

Currently fabbing the gm-4 onto a honda 400ex hehe [emoji48]


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bigdaddyinacaddy said:
Well just for the record guys I melted the ATT’s exhaust turbine about two weeks into having it installed. Effectively turning it into a $800 paperweight.
Tried to see about a new cartridge from dennis but I never got a reply. F It. Never again.
I’ve got a he351ve on my 12v now. Runs excellent. Just wanted to update. The ATT made about 37psi for about 37 seconds before it was done. Coulda been worse. If i woulda known I couldn’t ever get a new cartridge for that turbo i woulda never ever ever bought one.

Currently fabbing the gm-4 onto a honda 400ex hehe [emoji48]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Click to expand...

There a many configurations of the Mitsu turbo that ATT sells is I think a CKO however; not knowing which one they sell kept me from buying one....
 
That sux. Not enough time to even see comparable results really. Any carnage pics?

Weird Dennis didn’t get back to you, concearning actually. If he told you no he won’t sell parts that would be one thing, but not returning call or email at all?

Does Leroy( @Burning oil )have parts available? It wouldn’t surprise me if not as not a lot of people have damaged or worn them out yet. But I would think something would be set up for future support of it. That would make sense for customers to not have to reverse engineer to obtain parts and them to make some more cash down the road as more of these wear out.

And yeah, a thread of the Honda would be cool to. Then we can have an example to show people the gm turbos are good for more than a door stop!!
 
I know he can get basic parts for them, but not sure about a cartridge. In all seriousness, you can't fault the turbo. You pushed it WAY outside it's map at 37 psi of boost. I would hate to have seen the egt's, or how fast it was spinning on an industrial use designed turbo.
 
bigdaddyinacaddy said:
Well just for the record guys I melted the ATT’s exhaust turbine about two weeks into having it installed. Effectively turning it into a $800 paperweight.
Tried to see about a new cartridge from dennis but I never got a reply. F It. Never again.
I’ve got a he351ve on my 12v now. Runs excellent. Just wanted to update. The ATT made about 37psi for about 37 seconds before it was done. Coulda been worse. If i woulda known I couldn’t ever get a new cartridge for that turbo i woulda never ever ever bought one.

Currently fabbing the gm-4 onto a honda 400ex hehe [emoji48]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Click to expand...

I have been trying to kill my ATT for years. But never gone over 20 PSI with it yet. I have to suspect the EGT was over what I hit mine with. I would like to know as well as others what the limit was. Give Dennis a chance to get back with you.

Did it grenade or melt?

As far a Cummins turbo's I suggest you look at a Garrett Ball Bearing turbo. I am not kidding. The Howl is awesome and I see just under it's limit of 40 PSI. It also lights off below 1500 RPM. Yeah the stage 3. These are antique discontinued turbo's, however, Turbo Resource out of Lake Havasu is using a modern in production BB Garrett to make a kit.

http://www.thetruckstop.us/forum/th...max-stage-3-gt3788r-ball-bearing-turbo.46377/
 
I didn’t intend to come on here & bash the turbo or the guy that sells them. Sorry if it sounded like that. I wasn’t aware you could get parts. But I messaged him through this forum a long while ago and didn’t get a response.
Shit happens. It’s all good. I ain’t even trippin about that turbo really. I actually ended up using the compressor wheel & housing on the H1C before I got the vgt. Bet nobody’s ever noticed that have ya lol! Both the ATT & Holset H1C use a v-band on the compressor housing. The ATT compressor housing is about 2.5x as wide as the H1C. So it helped the stocker out a little bit, it was a noticeable difference. I believe the wheels are the same diameter but just different widths from front->back.

Yea the exhaust turbine melted or exploded then melted? It was never seen again. I didn’t go back up the road and look for pieces but I never found any inside the turbo itself. The twin scrolls look melted too a little bit, but the impeller was ok (although I haven’t the slightest clue where it’s currently located) the compressor side was completely fine. Thank God. Worst nightmare exploding the comp. wheel & the cummins eating it. I still have the exhaust housing section of the turbo on a shelf in my shed.

The sound of it above 25psi sounds pretty sweet I must admit. It really was a better turbo than the H1C for sure.

The whole reason I even attempted to put it on the cummins was because I read about the td0whatever-##whatever Mitsubishi turbo, and the engine it was originally designed for was a 5.9l inline 6 mitsubishi diesel engine.

Yea, 4 years. I didnt realize it when I got on here but I just got an iphone again for the first time in a while & my backup I restored from had the tapatalk app so... sorry I had forgotten about TTS.. lol


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Warwagon
I can’t in good conscious use a garrett turbo simply for the fact that’s what they put on ford trucks lol. The Borg Warner S300 is the king of the block right now I believe, atleast for cummins & duramax trucks. Alot of people use a s400/s300 compound setup too. They are about $1300 but they are really nice turbos.


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I dont think anybody took it as bashing turbo or Dennis. Maybe upset about no response from Dennis, but yeah he doesn’t read on here that I know of. And not being able to get ahold of any supplier isn’t good.

Egt from an inline 6 all getting to the turbo is gonna heat it more than a v8 with half the cylinders running the exhaust under it.

Any plans for the ATT carcass? If you can get a cartridge, you gonna rebuild it and run it in something?

I know what you mean about ATT vs h1c, a guy here in Vegas went from h1c to ATT with no other alterations, nice bump in power and 1.5 mpg iirc.
 
bigdaddyinacaddy said:
Warwagon
I can’t in good conscious use a garrett turbo simply for the fact that’s what they put on ford trucks lol. The Borg Warner S300 is the king of the block right now I believe, atleast for cummins & duramax trucks. Alot of people use a s400/s300 compound setup too. They are about $1300 but they are really nice turbos.


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Click to expand...

@Will L. said it best. One of the reasons Dennis isn't on the forums anymore is the non-stop bashing that was like wrestling in the mud with pigs. Regardless I agree you weren't bashing.

Ride in my truck with the BB turbo and you will forgive them for supplying FORD. It's like holding the GMx supplier responsible for GM's F Up of specifying said small Asthma Attack turbo for every 6.5 application... :facepalm: I am clutch limited to 425 HP and 900 LB FT. (And IMO that's fine for what I want out of it.) Cooling system limit slightly less on long grades. The spool recovery time is almost instant after a slow NV5600 shift.

There are other BB turbo's out there you could try. The gain of several shaft HP is noticeable. The VGT may or may not have an edge on it. You would likely notice an edge more with the wide gearing of the 5 speed.
 
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