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6.5 to 5.9 swap

Burbanaz

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Location
Tucson, AZ
I know a swap to a 5.9 isnt that rare anymore, but every thread i look up gets so far off topic on the GM vs Dodge vs Ford thing that it becomes useless for info. I have multiple issues with my 6.5 and im thinking im going to swap in a 5.9 Cummins since there are a few local trucks that i could get and pull parts. There is someone selling a 93 Dodge with the cummins with 90k for 3500 that i could pick up. Im just curious what i will need to change. Id like to stick with my 4l80e just because i trust them and have had a few trucks with them in the past and never any tranny issues. I know that would require an adapter plate and a stand alone computer. Other than that though what else will need to be replaced? also i have a cage built around the back of my suburban so i cant body lift because if goes from the frame to just barely above the roof so i would have to rebuild that. Is there a way to do the swap without the body lift? maybe new hood with a tall cowl or something?

I just want to get a general idea of what all of this will cost, i know it wont be cheap but if its going to end up costing me 10 grand its just not worth it to me.

Since the swaps are popular now does anyone make a kit with the motor mounts, adapters, etc.. i can fab them if i need to but id rather buy them if their not too crazy expensive.
 
Have you posted a thread with your problems yet? I bet the guys here can get you going way cheaper than what a cummins swap will cost.

is your burb 4wd?
 
How much do you want to spend on it? You can overhaul a 6.2 and drop it in for less than $2000. Add a big turbo, exaust, and tune and you get to or above the power level of the 12v. Use a Optimizer engine if cracks concern you. Head studs for sure. If the PMD is an issue you can swap to a DB2 mechanical injection system. Easily at the reliability level of a 5.9. (And the 5.9 isn't perfect.)

So for $3500.00 alone you can build a decent 6.2/6.5.

454's would be a cheaper and simpler swap and with a supercharger...

Just not worth it cost wise to swap. Other goals like power without a budget justify swaps.
 
Helped a guy with his about 5yrs back. Had to lift the body, cut and raise exoskeleton . He bought a tranny adapter, stand alone tranny comp. we built everything else. It ended my thought of a 5.9 hummer. He sAid never again. It was more expensive than making a duraburb. He got the engine for 2200.
Only do it if you are sure you want it, not because its cheaper long term, it is not.
 
Yea my suburban is 4x4, my main worry is reliability. I keep going back and forth on what i want to do but i keep hearing about problems with the 6.5. Ive had mine for about a year and havent had too many issues really except im losing coolant so im guessing its a head gasket, and im getting codes that are probably either a PMD or the Injection pump. We do long trips off road for weeks at a time and im just worried about overall reliability. Im not sure what it would take to make my current 6.5 really reliable or if it would even be worth it.
 
I have 205k on mine right now. Basically right now im trying to decide what would be the best choice. I want to stay diesel so its either new 6.5, used duramax, cummins, or 7.3 or powerstoke
 
reliability is such a fickle thing. best things is to be prepared for it breaking no matter what route you go.
 
I agree AK, I bought a BRAND NEW 09 F-350 (yea I know, first mistake) in 2010. I got a great deal on it, it was a King Ranch crew cab 4x4 dually with a 6.4 I only put 30,000 on it and made Ford buy it back. It was literally in the shop more then it was on the road. So it's a toss up on how reliable a vehicle will be, even a BRAND NEW one... I say throw a Ted's engine and all new AC Delco accessories and you should be good for a while.
 
Learn what to do on this site and you will do fine. Off road long trips? I send my hummer airborne. I submerge it to the windshield fording water. 1,000 mile all off road trips are not unusual for me. I eat 2-3 tires a trip sometimes. The 6.5 is not a concern as long as you set it up properly and carry a couple small parts like you would for any long trek. I have made mistakes like running crap-o-brand thermostats and i just changed it out every summer, now the pros here taught me to buy ac delco, that ends that pain.

A lot of what the nay sayers "know" about these engines is bunk. Create a list of the mods to do from this site and go through them as you can afford to.
 
Learn what to do on this site and you will do fine. Off road long trips? I send my hummer airborne. I submerge it to the windshield fording water. 1,000 mile all off road trips are not unusual for me. I eat 2-3 tires a trip sometimes. The 6.5 is not a concern as long as you set it up properly and carry a couple small parts like you would for any long trek. I have made mistakes like running crap-o-brand thermostats and i just changed it out every summer, now the pros here taught me to buy ac delco, that ends that pain.

A lot of what the nay sayers "know" about these engines is bunk. Create a list of the mods to do from this site and go through them as you can afford to.

What^^^^^^^^^^^^Will says.

We just bought a '94 Suburban. Vehicle is very clean, but engine has 243K miles on it and blow by coming out the dip stick. That said, it runs very strong, has all the goodies including a 4 position Buddy tuner. Only thing lacking is the ATT and that will be coming. We'll just drive it until it goes bang and then we'll install the engine harvested from the '95 wreck.

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You would be hard pressed to match this truck for what we've got into it. It's a great ride and cheap miles.
 
The 6.5 is not a concern as long as you set it up properly and carry a couple small parts like you would for any long trek.

Couple spare parts like a complete 6.2 engine, oil filter, oil cooler, turbo, 6 quarts of oil... :hihi: Card carrying member of that advice I am...

Warwagon's spare parts:

gift.jpg
unwrapped.jpg

Find out if you do have a coolant leak or head gasket issue. Does the top rad hose get hard just after startup? Remove the fan belt and then remove coolant crossover. Start engine and see what side the bubbles come from. Cracked head or block is possible.

I have run the 6.5's 550 miles a day 5 days a week pulling a trailer up 7% or better grades. Best thing you can do is the following:

Remove fuel tank and toss sock.
Walbro lift pump with a CAT water filter pre lift pump. (Nothing else comes close to the reliability of the Walbro from my lift pump graveyard collection. I have collected them all...)
Remove engine and put in gapless rings.
New rocker buttons.
Head studs with locktight on block threads.
CS-144 alternator mod.
ATT turbo.
4" exhaust.
PMD on bumper or DB2 mechanical pump conversion.
Duraterms
rebuilt injectors
Tune.
New AC hoses.
New PS hoses.
New coolant hoses.
Replace radiator.
Kennedy Diesel low temp fan clutch
Dmax fan or 19" 9 blade steel fan
HO water pump.
New timing chain or gears if you can find them.
$100 rear brake lining and new wheel cylinders.
Replace front hubs.
Make sure front end is in good shape.
Trans oil and filter every 25K.
Big 3 battery cable kit.
Lift pump relay mod as applicable to your year.
Replace factory oil cooler with a kit that doesn't use factory type hoses. Leroydiesel for example.
Powermaster starter.
The best batteries you can get. These will not be Optima as my rigs eat them for breakfast. Dekka or Odyssey in the relabeled store brands is a good start.
Run some biocide in the diesel now and then.

Of course you will have cleaned the condenser and removed the oil coolers to clean between them too.
Likely a new AC compressor for good measure.

Even with that you will get surprises.

The biggest thing with these engines is to keep them cool. Getting them hot will hurt them from cracks to oil failure and scuffed piston(s).
 
thanks for all the advice guys. I know i can make the 6.5 reliable enough but im not sure i want to put all the work into an engine that has 205k on it and i dont think the previous owner maintained it that great so id be surprised if there isnt other damage like a cracked block or cylinder. Im just curious if i can get a whole donor truck for the cummins do u guys think it would be reasonably affordable to do the swap. Im pretty sure a 6bt cummins with 90k will last me alot longer than a 6.5 with over 200k on it. Im just trying to figure out what my best long term plan is going to be.

Im not sure carrying around a full spare engine is one of my options warwagon lol
 
my buddy the dodge cummins enthusiast has to work on the cummins too. the cummins eats transmissions as part of a heart healthy diet. waterpumps leak, killer dowel pins crack the timing case, radiators give up on life, etc. even the best stuff has issues, and all stuff works if maintained, at least pre-emission stuff.

Emission crap equipped trucks go to pot under the best of care at times.

stay with the old, and maintain it well is my opinion. I got the first part mastered, the second i am working on. :)
 
For what you are doing I'm not sure the cummins is the best idea. Weight, parts price, and hard to find parts of the Frankenstein rig while on the trail.

Just because the engine has 200k doesn't mean it's worn out, mine has 290k and doesn't hardly use oil.

Sent from: Source Unknown
 
Toss 200K engine IF and only if it is cracking. Obtain a 30K mile military surplus 6.2 engine for $1200 or other more expensive used Optimizer engine. Re-ring with gapless rings, and deglaze cylinders. Rest of above list applies.
 
Low cost. Low maintenance. High reliability. Please choose 2 of the 3.
The cummins will outlast the 6.5, but the expense you go through to do it has to be weighed.
What kind of off roading are you doing? A higher center of gravity that will also shift forward by a foot before the body lift comes in to play. Ever traverse a steep hill? Going down hill with ledges? Things to consider. Dodges do well, but their frame to body center is lower than Chevy and there eng/trans is set back a bit more to cover these.

The amount of leave you stranded problems with a 6.5 is not that high compared to a 5.9 when you do the dollar cost figures. Don't compare a 200k engine to a 90k engine alone. You have to figure the cost of the complete conversion and the upgrades like fuel system, body lift, cage modification,etc. Now figure the cost of the upgrades to the truck what WW is telling you to do. Do the math for the expected time you own the rig.
 
thanks for all the advice guys. I know i can make the 6.5 reliable enough but im not sure i want to put all the work into an engine that has 205k on it and i dont think the previous owner maintained it that great so id be surprised if there isnt other damage like a cracked block or cylinder. Im just curious if i can get a whole donor truck for the cummins do u guys think it would be reasonably affordable to do the swap. Im pretty sure a 6bt cummins with 90k will last me alot longer than a 6.5 with over 200k on it. Im just trying to figure out what my best long term plan is going to be.

Im not sure carrying around a full spare engine is one of my options warwagon lol

Having done a 5.9 swap in a dually 4x4 I can tell you it was a beast. The 5.9 12v can be extreamely powerfull for not much more money. I did mine without any lift of the body, but did drop front diff 2".
IMO a Cummins in a Burb is not a good match up.
I hope this won't come out wrong either, but if you dont want to spend the time/money to get the 6.5 the way you want/need then don't even look at a Cummins. The Cummins took alot of time to fit up in a 4x4. Then you'll have to figure out a controller for the trans....
In a 2wd truck its a great choice.
BTW I was running the 4L80E and it was great.
 
Spend 5,000-7,000 on a new 6500 Optimizer and refreshed supporting bits and have it drop right in place of the old iron or spend 5,000-7,000 on swapping in a used 5.9 (price includes brackets, adapters, mounts, optishift, hoses, belts, etc) and cut the floor/firewall (lots of BFH work is another option) or cut the cage.

Even if you go with the 5.9, your 4l80E will be the limiting factor for power production. You can build big power and feed it through a 4l80E, but you will eventually have to build the 4l80e to handle it (IE: more $$$$)

New optimizer will give you an honest 300,000+ miles in normal use and with careful parts choices get you anywhere from 16-20 mpg.

Find a military take out optimizer and it can be even cheaper. A thrifty shopper (IE: scrounger/lucky/right place right time) can build either a 6.5 rig or a 5.9 rig cheaper than above, but not a lot cheaper.

Now consider what you will be doing with the truck.

If you plan to off road much, make sure you plan on carrying somewhere around another 600 lbs over the front end. Not too great on soft ground. The extra weight also means more frequent front suspension replacement and unitized wheel bearing assemblies.

Cummins will outlive a couple 6.5's.

Get a PMD isolator (I use a heath unit, 3 years and no troubles) and the electronic gremlins that plague these truck almost totally disappear. Maybe chuck in a new DS4 if it's condition and the optical sensor thing worries you.

With an Optimizer powered truck you can get just about every part at a local autoparts store. You can even raid a junkyard in a pinch and probably find that part you need.

With a Cummins swap it's a little bit harder to get parts, but you can get 'em. Less likely to find parts in the local junkyards also.

Cummins parts are more expensive than 6.5 parts (price out some injectors or an accessory bracket for example)



Pick your poison....


I would love to drop a 12V in my 98, but it's just not cost effective for me and after living with a well sorted Optimizer 6500 for a couple years it fills my needs nicely.

:)
 
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