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Duramax LBZ Predator Vs. PPE

Discussion in 'GM Tuning' started by RYDNHI4X4, May 3, 2008.

  1. RYDNHI4X4

    RYDNHI4X4 Halt Halt Or I'll Release My Dog

    1,098
    0
    May 3, 2008
    San Antonio, TX
    Written By: Unit453


    The purpose of this thread is for all you 3rd generation LLY and LBZ owners to be able to compare two similar programmers side by side. I'm on a budget and running a stock tranny. I have no desire to make huge power and I'm looking for overall drivability, mileage, ease of installation, and durability. I'm not looking to fry my tranny either or shell out the cash for a built one...When this one goes; I'll know its time to upgrade.

    I was lucky enough to know a great guy who sent me his PPE programmer to try out for a little while.

    I walked outside today, coffee in hand, to start the process: Detune the Predator and upload the PPE tune.

    Ease of installation: Quick and easy. The predator definitely loads faster but who cares about an extra minute. I loaded the 90 h.p. "towing" (yeah right) tune and went onto the tire size adjustments...Now....Having used many different programmers in the past with 2 different trucks, I know that trying to get the speedo adjusted was always like sawing your arm off with a spoon. Since I'm running 285's, I tuned for 32.8. I figured that'll be a decent place to start off incase I have to retune it later because it was off...

    I don’t have gauges yet so I couldn’t tell you the differences in pyro temps...

    Drivability: I opted not to reset the trans. No need to really. It was fine before the way it shifted so why ruin a good thing? Immediately upon start up, I noticed the exhaust smells a lot stronger.....Like noticeably stronger. The pedal isn’t nearly as touchy with this PPE as with the Predator. I kind of like the added throttle response and I'm a bit sad to lose it for now. I got on down the road...It feels good....Shifts good....And will break the tires loose on a freshly paved surface that I happen to be travelling on through the lower gears...It makes power at a higher rpm than the Predator does so it doesn’t feel as torquey off the line, at all.....It definitely takes more pedal to get it moving.

    I think my turbo is louder but I'm probably mildly retarded and just didn’t hear it as well before. No rattle from the engine. It seems throatier for some reason but again, maybe it’s me. That 90 h.p. tune pulls well. You stab it, it goes....

    The tuner I got which many of you know, list their numbers...

    Level 1: 40 h.p.
    Level 2: 90 h.p.
    Level 3: 160 h.p.
    Level 4: 225 h.p.
    Level 5: 300 h.p.
    Level 6: 350 h.p.

    I would love to run the higher levels but I'm not risking frying my tranny. Not happening. I'm only at 11,000 miles and I don’t need an early warranty claim. I would like to know however what this programmer puts down at the wheels on an LBZ.

    I keep hearing that the mileage is the cats ass with the PPE so gimme a couple tanks of regular driving and I'll tell you. I started off today with a half tank and I just had to fill it up a hous ago. My dumbass punched it like 80 times so far today. I averaged this last tank at 15.8, hand calculated of course, which isn’t too bad considering the throttle was pretty much glued open all afternoon. My normal mix between around town and stop and go gives me 18 and some change and a solid 22 mph highway keeping it at 70 mph. My speedo was surprisingly right on, to the T, when verified with my GPS. I didn’t expect that at all. Two points for PPE.

    Price: For the price, the Predator really can’t be beat. $300 is too cheap to pass up considering the real time data that it gives you and internet updateable. PPE, same boat with the real-time data but thumbs down for the price tag. I would not pay $950 for this tuner. I don’t really care how many levels it’s got because 4 out of 6 are pointless to use on a stock tranny. (That is if you value your truck)

    My opinion is that the PPE seems to be a great tuner. It’s got great drivability, good shifting, and it’s easy to install. I have no doubt that the 160 tune and higher will throw a code. It’s got great power on the lower levels as well. I'd like to see some egt's empty and pulling a sizeable load on this 90 h.p. tune. You can’t beat a calibrated speedo the first try, period...PPE feels like it’s got more ass up at the top of the rpm range.

    The Predator is also a great tuner. Real time data, balance rates, the ability top clear DTC's, the works...Again, $300 speaks for itself. Calibrating the speedo is a pain in the ass, for me anyways, with my old LLY and this LBZ. Trial and error. I miss my touchy throttle. I got so used to it, now I want it back. I like just to be able to poke it a bit and the whole truck lurches forward. Predator definitely feels torquier down low, making power right off idle, which I like.

    I will post my mileage results here in this thread so show the difference, if any.

    My opinion, I like my Predator and would highly recommend it to anyone. I would also recommend the PPE to anyone who wants more bite out of their truck than the Predator can give. I'll run this PPE for a while but my Predator is going to stick with me. I think I like it better.
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2008
  2. copter

    copter Toy Hauler

    73
    0
    May 4, 2008
    Nor*Cal
    Good write up Steve..

    According to Dan@PPE the 160 tune will be OK for the stock tranny. I've had mine at 160 for daily driving for maybe a year now and no tranny issues at all; Just HOLD ON!! You might get a CEL if your exhaust is "open" and more than likely you'll get the "left the ign on too long code".
     
  3. Unit453

    Unit453 Cruises comfortably at 140... Staff Member Administrator

    7,124
    4
    Feb 10, 2008
    Bradenton, FL
    Actually, I wrote that...He's just bringing some of the good material over...:sifone:
     
  4. copter

    copter Toy Hauler

    73
    0
    May 4, 2008
    Nor*Cal
    Good ol' cut and paste huh?
     
  5. joverman

    joverman Recruit

    18
    0
    May 8, 2008
    Harmony, NC
    :yikes:I thouht that I remember seeing that a while back on another site.
     
  6. WanaDmxSub

    WanaDmxSub Recruit W/gray hair

    89
    0
    May 8, 2008
    PPE HP ratings are estimated fly wheel.
    Predator are RWHP.
     
  7. Dura-Ration

    Dura-Ration No Obuma

    815
    1
    May 13, 2008
    Escatawpa,Ms.
    Predator

    Predator set on 85HP will definity LIMP your Tranny. :hand:
     
  8. RayMich

    RayMich Active Member

    4,717
    7
    May 9, 2008
    Mid Michigan
    I thought that looked very familiar. :thumbsup:

    Still a great write up. :hurray:

    Nick, did you ever get a chance to do a fuel economy comparison between the two?
     
  9. Unit453

    Unit453 Cruises comfortably at 140... Staff Member Administrator

    7,124
    4
    Feb 10, 2008
    Bradenton, FL
    I did. It was exactly the same. 17.8 round town.
     
  10. BigBlueBurban

    BigBlueBurban Umm no...WAIT...yes

    98
    0
    May 7, 2008
    Grand Rapids, Michigan
    What are you running now? Still using the PPE or throw the predator back in?
     
  11. Unit453

    Unit453 Cruises comfortably at 140... Staff Member Administrator

    7,124
    4
    Feb 10, 2008
    Bradenton, FL
    The PPE was borrowed for a month or so.

    I'm running Predator 85 and its giving me a solid 22 and some change mpg at highway speeds running at 70.

    I also use a Hyperpac live data that I like as well. Hyperpac dosent give me near the mileage though but the tunes are very nice.
     
  12. RayMich

    RayMich Active Member

    4,717
    7
    May 9, 2008
    Mid Michigan
    Thanks!

    What did you get with the stock tune around town?
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2008
  13. Unit453

    Unit453 Cruises comfortably at 140... Staff Member Administrator

    7,124
    4
    Feb 10, 2008
    Bradenton, FL
    Honestly, I have no idea. I threw a tune on it at 2500 miles. When it was stock, my mileage was horrendous. I was getting 11-12 on average. Once I hit 6000 miles, it jumped to around 20 and I couldnt believe it.
     
  14. jrkrace

    jrkrace Recruit

    550
    0
    May 9, 2008
    Connecticut
    Damn...17.8? I can't break 15 if my life depended on it.
     
  15. Unit453

    Unit453 Cruises comfortably at 140... Staff Member Administrator

    7,124
    4
    Feb 10, 2008
    Bradenton, FL
    Yeah, thats 'round town too.
     
  16. RayMich

    RayMich Active Member

    4,717
    7
    May 9, 2008
    Mid Michigan
    That's interesting. Right now I'm only getting 12 to 13 around town and I'm driving like timid grandmother. My highway mileage has tanked to no higher than 16 to 16.5 when driving at 65. I used to be able to get 18.8 to almost 20 mpg at 70 MPH back in 2006. It has been dropping steadily since Jan '07 and now I can't seem to get any better than 16.5 on the highway at 65 MPH even though the truck now has over 29,200 miles. My combined average with approx. 50/50 mix is down to 14.3 mpg since Jan 1 2008. This really sucks right now. :(

    I've complained at the dealer several times and asked for them to check for newer updated ECM cals, but all I get now is, "there are no codes to indicate a problem, so unless there is some kind of recall, GM won't allow us to reprogram anything". I know that there have been newer LBZ cals made since my truck was built in Nov of '05. Maybe I should force a DTC. :idea:
     
  17. 12ga diesel

    12ga diesel Jack of all, Master of none

    1,766
    29
    May 4, 2008
    McHenry,IL
    Then I must not be tryin' hard enough.:D I've had the Predator 85 hp on for the last month or so, and have had no problem. Made a pass yesterday, starting at about 60 mph, and made the pass and let off at around 95 mph, and didn't feel the truck loose fuel pressure. Was pretty surprised, not sure if it was because of the Predator or not. What I do know is that the Predator is much more powerful feeling with the 5" turbo back exhaust then it is with the stock system on. I was running the Predator on my '05 with the stock exhaust and Bully Dog intake, and compaired to the '06 w/ Predator and 5" turbo back, it's night and day. My '06 feels so much more powerful!
     
  18. TIM Z

    TIM Z Tie Rod Bender

    294
    0
    May 7, 2008
    Navarre, Ohio
    My PPE experince has been Great. Its the most powerful, best Shifting tuner ive had. I run it on the 300 horse tune everday( with supporting mods ofcourse) and it has been flawless since i bought it last november. I dont even switch to a tow tune when towing( i watch my Pyro ofcourse) But i just wanted to tell about the reliabilty of PPE's product. There Cust. support is top notch too. Nice write up Rydinhi !
     
  19. Super Dave

    Super Dave New Member

    15
    0
    May 20, 2008
    IGH Minnesota
    Hello Gentlemen,

    Another DP convert here. Since all the knowledge came here to this forum, it only made sense to follow! I've been running the Predator on the 85hp setting for 6 months and it kept my mileage the same through winter fuel months. Normally I would see a drop of several MPG during the winter (I'm in MN). So, I'm hoping that once all of the winter fuel is out of the system up here I'll see an increase in MPG.

    Dave
     
  20. Unit453

    Unit453 Cruises comfortably at 140... Staff Member Administrator

    7,124
    4
    Feb 10, 2008
    Bradenton, FL

    I wrote that Tim. He copied and pasted. :sifone:
     

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