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Cold weather starting

Discussion in 'GM 6.2 Diesels' started by sethwyo, Nov 27, 2016.

  1. sethwyo

    sethwyo New Member

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    Oct 24, 2016
    wyoming
    when using a block heater is not possible, in cold weather, is it OK to use starting fluid to get the old 6.2 and the 6.5 running ? I have been advised that this will melt, or swell the glow plugs, and soon make the engine not start at all. will simply disconnecting the glow plug wires to start with spray starting fluid be OK ?
     
  2. ak diesel driver

    ak diesel driver 6.5 driver

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    Feb 7, 2009
    alaska
    What kind of temps are we talking. No on the starting fluid.
     
  3. Will L.

    Will L. Well-Known Member

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    Jan 25, 2013
    Boulder City Nv
    Best way to use starting fluid with an idi diesel is spray it directly to the oilpan, then ignite with a lighter. Just as the flame is about to go out, spray more onto the open flame. The heat from the burning fluid will slightly warm the engine.

    Seriously though, if you ever have to start with it in a serious emergency is as soon as the glow plugs go out, spray while cranking. You will destroy the glowplugs with it, and have a HUGE chance on blowing the engine- holes in pistons, damage to precups, cracked block and heads. An emergency is something you are willing to destroy the engine for. Dont shut the engine off until it is somewhere you can swap the plugs out.

    Been there, done that. Working as a mechanic in a fleet of 6.5's ive seen soo many destroyed diesels from people using starting fluid
     
    NVW likes this.
  4. sethwyo

    sethwyo New Member

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    Oct 24, 2016
    wyoming
    Thank you for your replys.

    It is about 20 here tonight. will be that cold again and lower this winter. I have a small two stroke generator I use to run the block heater, but it takes several hours to get it warm enough to start. im looking for a quicker system to start it in this below freezing weather.
     
  5. Will L.

    Will L. Well-Known Member

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    Jan 25, 2013
    Boulder City Nv
    Ok, first what glowplugs are you using? Incase you don't know there are only2 worth having:
    AC Delco 60G or Bosch duraterm 80034.
    They are self limiting and wont burn up or swell up.
    Remeber to put antisieze on the threads before installing.

    Then add this:
    http://leroydiesel.com/products/leroys-glow-plug-relay-override/
    Run a switch inside the truck and your good to go.

    How much wattage your generator puts out counts too for adding the glue on heat pads.
     
    WarWagon likes this.
  6. sethwyo

    sethwyo New Member

    6
    0
    Oct 24, 2016
    wyoming
    magnetic heater.


    "Good to Go" ? rhymes with "10 below"
     
  7. ak diesel driver

    ak diesel driver 6.5 driver

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    Feb 7, 2009
    alaska
    I have 2 1000w block heaters in mine (factory is 600) and at -30 I can plug it in for 1 hour and start it without glowplug override. With the glowplug override,and no block heaters I have gone down to zero without to much issue.
     
  8. WarWagon

    WarWagon Well it hits on 7 of 8...

    7,622
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    Nov 15, 2009
    AZ
    Only use starting fluid on a 6.2 / 6.5 you are planning on pulling out for a rebuild. Add a starter to the parts list as I have broken the gear reduction from starting fluid use and the engine came out for a rebuild anyway. The other use was starting a bad engine to get it one the trailer that had a thumb size hold in a piston - starter melted down and the 60G glow plugs were just nubs: burned completely off. It never ran again having to be kicked off the trailer and that 6.5 engine went to the scrap metal yard.

    In an emergency completely disable the glow plugs to use starting fluid. Understand the starting fluid explodes before TDC attempting to bend rods, launch starter off the engine with chunks of the block, break head bolts, blow head gaskets, launch heads clean off the engine to the moon, and it's intended purpose provide heat to light the diesel injected later. Habitual use of starting fluid makes your engine an addict due to lower compression from bent rods.

    As you have already used starting fluid consider your glow plugs, all 8 of them, ruined. This be part of the "immediate engine damage" that blue sticker warns of. Chunks of glow plugs being FOD ruining pistons is the second damage that can happen. I covered the other damage above. Start by testing and replacing the glow plugs. Bosch duraterm 80034 is better than the AC 60G, but, both require more than factory glow time to actually glow. Remove injector and watch the glow plugs cycle. The OEM non self limiting plugs will glow while the Bosh and 60G's don't due to lack of "on" time.
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2016
  9. WarWagon

    WarWagon Well it hits on 7 of 8...

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    Nov 15, 2009
    AZ
    Disable the glow plugs period. The stand alone controller likes to kick the plugs back on during cranking from the crank signal.
     
    Will L. likes this.
  10. sethwyo

    sethwyo New Member

    6
    0
    Oct 24, 2016
    wyoming
    thank you for info.

    I do not nowe what glow plugs iv got in there, they likely are original factory, but ill be replacing them with either the recommended ~ AC Delco 60G ~ Bosch duraterm 80034.
     
  11. sethwyo

    sethwyo New Member

    6
    0
    Oct 24, 2016
    wyoming
    Pulled a glow plug this morning to see if they would come out before I buy new set. I was advised to do this , to make sure they are not melted and not removable, also was told to not force them out by turning too hard as this can break swelled plugs off inside the motor.

    the plug looked fine, I plugged it into the wire, turned on the ignition and grounded it to the motor, after a few seconds it was hot enough to burn a piece of paper.
     
  12. 1994ch

    1994ch Active Member

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    Dec 6, 2008
    South Carolina
    What are the temps that you are starting in? I am pulling apart a 6.2 to rebuild. Some of the glowplugs looked ok and others looked pretty sad. Does it help to cycle them a couple times before starting? Do you have a manual switch to extend the glow time (might want to replace them if you do that or make sure you have the new good self limiting plugs)
     
  13. sethwyo

    sethwyo New Member

    6
    0
    Oct 24, 2016
    wyoming
    starting in temperatures From 30 below to thirty above. I have put in ten weight crank case oil for this winter,& cold weather fuel additive. I do not have at this time a manual glow plug switch, but am going to put one in both my pickups.
    I member an old ford with a 6.9 iv got out on the farm, it had a manual switch added for the glow plugs.

    in years past I had to spend several hours heating the motor with warmers and cranking, then charging batteries, then cranking again to get motor running.

    No, I have not tried to cycle the plugs before starting. don't nowe if that helps. the manual switch with the proper plugs seems to be the way to go. most everyone who does it seems to use and advise this method.

    But something I learned today, a fellow truck driver, told me as I was asking his advise for starting a below freezing diesel, he uses starting fluid, he said "the can has No Disclaimers" it does not say 'Do not use on diesel engines', he said the can has "for gasoline and Diesel motors" on the label. years ago starting fluid had 'either' in it, but now days starting fluid is not as rough on motors. interesting .
     
  14. NVW

    NVW Well-Known Member

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    May 5, 2008
    Castor, AB.
    Smells the same to me?

    With glow plugs, anything that ignites that easily is going to be a problem.

    I have one diesel I use starting fluid on, it's a 1959 Fordson. It is only used in summer and needs it to start. That is because the starter won't crank fast enough. If I was depending on it I would have the starter rebuilt.
     
  15. ak diesel driver

    ak diesel driver 6.5 driver

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    Feb 7, 2009
    alaska
    Bigger battery cable to the starter helps quite a bit too.
     
    WarWagon likes this.
  16. Will L.

    Will L. Well-Known Member

    6,255
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    Jan 25, 2013
    Boulder City Nv
    Most diesels can handle starting fluid. Not idi diesels with glow plugs. The high pressure explosion can crack the inconel precups, and crack the piston top. The starting fluid crystalizes the surface of the glow plugs and ruins them.

    If you are spraying it, and the glow plugs heat it with the intake valve open and you use a little bit too much it will back flash to you. -Same thing happens to air heaters like dodge cummins- look on youtube for videos of guys burning themselves.- there is one where it lit the guy on fire and blew up the can in his hand. He was making a video on how to do it right- posted the video and shows his hand missing 2 fingers after the surgery- posted as a cautionary tell.

    When i said dont do it unless an emergency, I mean an emergency like people dying. Not oh no, I'm late for work, an emergency like i will stop traffic and have a stranger drive me there if it doesnt start. 911 stuff.

    This is a light duty engine that happens to use diesel fuel. It is nothing like a detroit or cat semi engine.

    Cycling the key does a similar action to the added relay I posted, except the glow plug relay can shut off by itself. The relay attachment give you full control. Doing either of these with the older style glow plugs will cause them to swell, or maybe even break off. If they swell, buy the tool from Leroy - it will save your tail feathers. If they break off you will get to look at at least damaged pistons, maybe valve damage, even saw cylinder wall damage a couple times too that made the block worthless.

    Besides the relay and glowplugs,
    2 strong batteries. New oversized cables. Power master 9052 starter. Keep fuel filter changed regular. Test your injectors, rebuild or replace as needed. 100,000 mile is time for quality ones, ever buy ebay or junk ones. If you buy them get only brand new Bosch or delphi injectors from a known good supplier- there are several rip off companies out there to avoid
    A1, ss diesel, preditor, are a few rip off outfits that come to mind. Asking here and reading all the stickies will save you lots of time and money.

    Most of us here, myself included are a frugal bunch. Not cheap, pizza tonight was 1 hour and the delivery guy still got a tip. But frugal. Upgrading these components cost a bit in the beginning, but pay for themselves in the long haul.
     
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  17. WarWagon

    WarWagon Well it hits on 7 of 8...

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    Nov 15, 2009
    AZ
    Glow plug FOD damage as seen from the slightly higher than "scrap metal price" I paid for a parts engine. After the glows blew up I imagine the piston cracks on the passenger side are from "IDI destruction in a can" because there isn't any scuffing you get with overheating piston cracks. More carnage here: http://www.thetruckstop.us/forum/threads/1992-6-5td-rescue.44332/page-5

    splat7.jpg

    3strikes.jpg
     
  18. NVW

    NVW Well-Known Member

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    May 5, 2008
    Castor, AB.
    Already done that, I have to use the decompression lever so it will crank past a compression stroke.
     
  19. GM Guy

    GM Guy Manual Trans. 2WD Enthusiast

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    May 6, 2008
    NW Kansas and SC Idaho
    the only aerosol action I would ever give a healthy 6.5L I dont want to destroy is WD40. It will fire it off, but its substantially better than ether.

    But seriously, get the old girl in better health, and she will start much better. a healthy 6.5L will go down to about zero at least, and some of our Canadian and Alaskan brothers on this very forum have gotten them to go at even lower.

    Good glow plugs, the ones mentioned above, a new matched pair of batteries, and good cables (if yours are shot check out PT Wiring Solutions) will do wonders. New or rebuilt injectors will also help.
     

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