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Bio Diesel Prices - Confused

Discussion in 'Maintenance & Fuels' started by Drew, May 16, 2008.

  1. Drew

    Drew <font color=blue>Capa'n</font>

    1,585
    0
    Feb 10, 2008
    Dayton Ohio Area
    I called my supplier today to order some bulk diesel.

    I asked how much B100 (b99) was, thinking that it would be comparable in price or cheaper that straight #2 and that I could mix it with regular #2 to get a b20-b50 ratio for the equipment.

    I was surprised. B99 is .67 more per gallon. (both off-road)

    #2 - 3.96 (offroad)
    B2 - 3.96
    B5 - 4.02
    B10 -4.06

    #2 - 4.48 (taxed)

    #2 taxed at the pump around here ranges from $4.19 to $4.35.

    Why would anyone bother with getting straight B?
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2008
  2. h2oskibumz

    h2oskibumz New Member

    4
    0
    May 12, 2008
    Well, there are 2 reasons, both more about politics and values than about $$$. Take your pick, or mix and match...

    1) The money goes into the manufacturer of the BioFuel... Some stays with them, some passes on to the dude that grew the soybeans.... um, that would be another American and not some dude in the Middle East...

    2) Environmentally, emissions from B100 are reduced as much as 80% across the board. The only exception is NOX emissions , which (depending on which data you believe) may be as much as 10% higher or may be insignificantly higher...

    Those are the two motivations for running Bio. Believe it or not, there are lots of Americans who are happy to pay a premium for Bio... for one of those two reasons or for some combination of them.

    As for why it is higher... The chemicals that go into production cost money. Labor costs money. Most of all though: Soybean oil is expensive... look at the trend over the last couple of years. Looks a little like the trend of Light Sweet Crude... UP UP and more UP. Biodiesel WILL be more expensive if it is from Virgin oils, and ALL commercial Bio is made from virgin oil.

    The ONLY way Biodiesel is going to be LESS expensive is if you gather RVO (recycled or "waste" vegetable oil) and manufacture your own. My last batch of 43 gallons cost me about $1.125, plus a bunch of my time...

    9 Gallons of methanol @ $3.68 + tax = $35.50
    2.5 lbs of Lye $13

    Hope that helps...
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2008
  3. fbh31118

    fbh31118 Cadet

    49
    0
    May 9, 2008
    Augusta, Michian
    The only real gold brick here is in the wvo or at least from what I'm reading. Anyone who has the time, space and inclination would be well off in giving the process a try. It appears that is can be done for a very small investment, possible less than a hundred bucks if you have all of the pluming stuff laying around.

    I've yet to read a confirmed 'horror' story about burning wvo on a regualr basis although I've heard that it can go bad over time. I'm not sure if this is true or not but if your driving much you can pretty much not worry about that part. I do wonder if it's possible to run this in the winter months but even if you can get by for nine months or so, what a savings!
     
  4. PDXLBZ

    PDXLBZ New Member

    12
    0
    May 17, 2008
    Oregon


    Good question man.

    What is it.....we aren't supposed to run more than B5 in the duramaxes? Then I see the prices whether it be B5 or a higher blend.

    I can find many better ways to feel good about myself than pay a premium for that action. It's just like recycling..... they have to make it easy for people or else they won't do it. Whether you agree or not, that is the reality of the majority.
     
  5. Unit453

    Unit453 Cruises comfortably at 140... Staff Member Administrator

    7,124
    4
    Feb 10, 2008
    Bradenton, FL
    I paid $4.85 for B20 here during the weekend. Its the same price as regular # 2. Its the first time I've used any bio at all, mainly because I never knew or saw any stores that actually sold it.
     
  6. hickorhippy

    hickorhippy Non-Neo-Con

    416
    0
    May 10, 2008
    Ca
    Don't make the mistake of thinking that BD is all the same price. I have found over $1 / g difference just by shopping suppliers. They all have different feedstock's and economies of scale, far more fragmented than the petrol diesel industry.

    For instance...last time I bought B99 it was 45 cents per gallon cheaper than D2. So now I am running on B99 that costs 3.34. Still got a drum and a half left too!
     
  7. Pepperidge

    Pepperidge Member Advocate Staff Member Lead Moderator

    12,367
    364
    Feb 10, 2008
    Slidell, La
    any fuel mileage difference between that and ULSD #2?
     
  8. hickorhippy

    hickorhippy Non-Neo-Con

    416
    0
    May 10, 2008
    Ca
    Yes...it is the weirdest thing too.....

    The truck will get superb mileage on B80++, I managed to get 22+ on a tank of all highway, cruise at 65. This was with the Van Aaken box, which failed a few months ago and was not replaced with anything. Since it advanced the timing, I may find that mileage has suffered, but I have not had the truck on the highway much at all since diesel turned into gold.

    The TDI, on the other hand, loses 2-3 mpg on B80++. I cannot figure this out.....the timing is advanced, it is running a fairly aggressive tune (130 HP, 260 ft lb). I suppose being knocked down from 48 to 45 is not a big deal, but it is interesting. Also a small loss of power is noticed going from D2 to B80.
     
  9. btfarm

    btfarm 300,000 Worth Staff Member Moderator

    16,098
    1,382
    May 12, 2008
    Sandwich, Illinois
    I am now on my 2nd tank of B10. I have never run any BIO before so I'm a bit concerned about the "solvent" effect but haven't seen any indication of filter plugging. I do carry a filter and tools, though. I don't notice any performance advantage or disadvantage and likewise don't see any MPG difference. I know it's been said there is an advantage in lubricity especially for the pump and that in itself is worth it. The price is the same as plain #2. I would have done this before but it was never really available anywhere convenient. Of course it still isn't really becase I have to go around to the truck island and any way you put it that kills a good 20 minutes with all the waiting in line and prepay hassle...
    I've been at a steady 19.5-20 MPG with either fuel and with or without PS Diesel Kleen for a couple of months now and I can't ask for much better...
     
  10. RI Chevy Silveradoman

    RI Chevy Silveradoman At your service Staff Member Moderator

    9,826
    539
    May 3, 2008
    Rhode Island
  11. WhtThndr3

    WhtThndr3 Yeah, I'm that guy

    Do you have to do any mods to the trucks, or just throw in the B100 and go? Or do you blend it w/D2? I heard lots of rif raf on the BD issue. B100 is all I can get around here in the state of CA were everything is environmentally correct:banghead:
     
  12. hickorhippy

    hickorhippy Non-Neo-Con

    416
    0
    May 10, 2008
    Ca
    Take some BD into a transparent jar and make sure it is clear if left in the bed of the truck overnight.

    If not, the cloud point of that particular brand of BD is not good enough for your weather conditions. Blend with diesel accordingly to get the cloud point up. I would say that B50-B80 is good, but it never hurts to check cloud pt. Most just dump it in and go, I'm anal.

    If quality looks good (clear, no fallout) run whatever you want. Theoretically it should make your truck regen less, and give you better mileage.....?

    I've been running B80-B100 in a LB7 for 4 years now, not a lick of trouble.
     
  13. WhtThndr3

    WhtThndr3 Yeah, I'm that guy

    Thanks, can you expand a little. I'm anal too, I just spent enough money to buy half a house. So you're saying if it's clear after a night, i can split bio 50/50 with D2?
     
  14. Pruittx2

    Pruittx2 OBD 1 Master

    680
    7
    May 6, 2008
    Lake Odessa, Mi
    put a sample of the bio in the fridge,,, when it starts to get cloudy,, thats the point at which you would want to start cutting it with #2. I'm sure you could run B20 year round,, I brew my own,, and I haven't brewed enough yet to start to worry about cold weather yet!! LOL
     
  15. busdriver75

    busdriver75 Busier than hell...

    1,258
    0
    May 7, 2008
    NW Ohio
    you can safely run a B5 blend year round in most places. i ran that all winter long and never had any problems. when it would get really cold around here (0* at night) i would treat each tank with some power service in the white bottle.

    the main reason for commercial bio being more expensive than dino diesel is simple. soybeans are $16 per bushel when a year ago they were $8. the cost of soybean oil has increased as a result. the only way i'm going to run a blend higher than 5% is if i'm brewing my own bio from WVO, other than that, a 5% blend provides sufficient lubricating properties.
     

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