Cognito Motorsports Pitman and Idler Braces

TurboTahoe · 02-02-2010, 06:05 PM

Hi guys,

You may recall a thread discussing how to 'beef up' the front end of our trucks. I know that my Tahoe has very loose and imprecise steering, and on freeway at speed, it can be rather unnerving. Also, my tires are wearing unevenly. Perhaps you guys have similar problems.

One of the members suggested Cognito Motorsports' Pitman and Idler braces.

I've been searching and have found some really good information I thought I would share. First, here's a very detailed explanation of what these items are, and how they are installed:

http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billav...nito_steering/

In addition, the steering on our trucks tends to get more sloppy over time, sometimes not a lot of time. The Cognito kit supposedly helps to mitigate the wear, but one of the big culprits, especially when installing bigger wheels and tires, is the alarmingly loose steering, a result of an under-engineered idler support. Here's a solution to that:

http://hendersonslineup.com/uncatego...2%80%93-ss175/

I took my truck into my favorite line up shop, and my buddy Chuck showed me how worn my steering assembly and the ball joints are on my Tahoe. Well, it looks like its going to cost several hundred to fix it all (2 upper ball joints, pitman arm, and tie rod ends.). Throw in the two items above (Idler Pivot replacement and pitman/idler bracing) and we're now up to about $1500. Whew.

Doing the repairs and upgrades promises to:

Eliminate the steering play
Eliminate uneven tire wear
Eliminate future premature wear

but would be pretty hefty in price.

What do you guys think? Does this sound like a good solution? Should I consider something else? Do you have similar problems? How did you solve them? Anything that is less expensive but as effective?

Thanks,

Rob

WarWagon · 02-02-2010, 07:10 PM

Without a lift the front ends on our body style wore out before 100K. Just ask yourself if it is cheaper to replace these parts at the miles you are getting out of them vs. the upgraded parts cost and expected life.

packratt · 02-02-2010, 09:23 PM

If you decide to go with the Cognito braces, contact NorCal Nick. He's a vendor on the site that deals alot of these.

schiker · 02-02-2010, 09:29 PM

Does the Cognito stuff fit pre '99 trucks or the classic 90's era GMT-400 or whatever we are with the 6.5 trucks???

I thought our only options were quality parts, good grease, and regular sized tires. And use the bilestins or however you spell it shocks.

I know big lugged mud tires that start to wear uneven then appreciably accelerates wear worse than milder tires for our trucks. I had a set of offbrand BFGoodrich mudder style tire wear out my front end and they were just 285/75R16's. I replaced tierods, idler, and pitman and went to an all terrain tire with better wear performance for the tires and front end.

chickenhunterbob · 02-02-2010, 09:42 PM

Without no lift, huge tires...etc. the front end on my truck lasted 370,000 km.

Tuned it up last Easter weekend.

Lower ball joints are still good, replaced upper ball joints, pitman arm, idler arm, inner and outer tie rod ends and the connectors, (and outer CV boots) steers like a sports car again.

I went with NAPA (OEM) parts and suspect I will probably never replace any of them again.

My view is replace what's worn, some things seem to never wear out.

DIY or pay, a few hundred in parts and tools...you're well ahead if you do it yourself.

I don't think our front end needs beefed up, never heard of any big trouble with stock parts.

ak diesel driver · 02-02-2010, 10:18 PM

If your paying someone to do it have them do the lowers at the same time. It will save you some dough in the long run.

TurboTahoe · 02-02-2010, 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chickenhunterbob

Without no lift, huge tires...etc. the front end on my truck lasted 370,000 km.

Tuned it up last Easter weekend.

Lower ball joints are still good, replaced upper ball joints, pitman arm, idler arm, inner and outer tie rod ends and the connectors, (and outer CV boots) steers like a sports car again.

I went with NAPA (OEM) parts and suspect I will probably never replace any of them again.

My view is replace what's worn, some things seem to never wear out.

DIY or pay, a few hundred in parts and tools...you're well ahead if you do it yourself.

I don't think our front end needs beefed up, never heard of any big trouble with stock parts.

On the 'burb, which is all-stock wheels and suspension, I tend to agree that OEM parts seem "OK", or acceptable (marginally). I did have to put new pitman arm in a couple of years ago around 80K miles. Personally, that seems like premature wear, given that the little minivan is at 200K miles, and still handles and steers extremely well, with no slop or toe-in problems.

I think that if you have a lift with large tires, the wear rate is much higher. Granted, the Tahoe is just really messed up, having had a complete rebuild of the steering back at 135K. Here it is only 185K, and it's toast AGAIN.

I believe that this IS a weak spot in the design, and I'm trying to fight it by putting in more well-designed parts and add-ons.

-Rob

TurboTahoe · 02-02-2010, 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by schiker

Does the Cognito stuff fit pre '99 trucks or the classic 90's era GMT-400 or whatever we are with the 6.5 trucks???

I thought our only options were quality parts, good grease, and regular sized tires. And use the bilestins or however you spell it shocks.

I know big lugged mud tires that start to wear uneven then appreciably accelerates wear worse than milder tires for our trucks. I had a set of offbrand BFGoodrich mudder style tire wear out my front end and they were just 285/75R16's. I replaced tierods, idler, and pitman and went to an all terrain tire with better wear performance for the tires and front end.

My understanding is that YES, both SuperSteer and Cognito have parts for the pre '99 trucks, I talked to both of the firms on the phone, and they assured me that they have kits for our trucks. As you can see, I have both a Tahoe and 'burb, which are pretty much identical setups to the pickups.

-Rob

TurboTahoe · 02-02-2010, 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chickenhunterbob

DIY or pay, a few hundred in parts and tools...you're well ahead if you do it yourself.

You know, I'm usually pretty handy with repairs, but I've tried doing ball joints and pitman arms myself. Without a lift and suspension repair parts, It's a bear. I'll look into again, but last time I said "Uncle" and went to visit my buddy Chuck. He had it done within an hour and a half.

-Rob

Paveltolz · 02-02-2010, 10:40 PM

I have a Rancho Rough Country 3" lift and 285 BF Goodrich tires. Prior to having the lift done, i reversed the Torsion Key turn up the PO did, replaced upper, lower ball joints, and everything between and including the outer tie rod ends with NAPA parts. 2 years later, the steering is starting to feel a little loose and last November I snapped a tie rod end prior to entering a curve with a nice 70 degree drop off. Fortunately there was a pull out area straight ahead before entering the curve because straight was the only direction it would go!

The outer tie rod end had shattered at the pivot ball. On closer inspection of the whole assembly, it appears that the outer tie rod ends are at the limit of upward travel with the truck under full weight. This means there is nothing for the tie rods to do but go metal on metal as the truck unweights during normal or extreme suspension travel (I hope this is making sense).

Solutions appear to be one of two things. Different lift kit (BDS), or drop back to stock to restore the suspension angles to a safer position. Oh yeah, two year old boots on new axles are torn...again, extreem angles induced by the wrong lift kit. I actually blame the installer more than I fault the kit, but that is a longer story.

SmithvilleD · 02-02-2010, 10:52 PM

There were a few threads that went around about a year ago relating to joint failures (as in joint breakage) on one or two trucks using braces like these. Believe they were the GM truck's the next generation newer than ours, but similar design.

I don't bring this forward thinking that the braces were necessarily at fault. But I would do some searching to see if any cause/effect was figured out. Depending on how grown together your T-bars & lower control arms are, I guess you could yank the bars & then cycle the suspension thru it's maximum travels & steering angles, to see if any joints get put near/beyond their range of motion like the tie-rod angle situation described above.

The braces look like a good idea. Tough to know if they improve durability enough to justify the cost. You might see if you can find anyone that's run the braces 50k + miles to see what their experience has been.

6.2 turbo · 02-03-2010, 01:46 AM

I've been down that road ,that is why my 97 has a solid axle,the 8 lug ifs seems to hold up better than the 6 lug.

TurboTahoe · 02-03-2010, 02:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 6.2 turbo

I've been down that road ,that is why my 97 has a solid axle,the 8 lug ifs seems to hold up better than the 6 lug.

I don't understand this. I'm asking a question about the steering assembly, and comments come up about moving to a solid axle. Doesn't the solid axle have the same steering assembly? How does moving to a solid axle keep the tie rods and pitman/idler arms from wearing out?

-Rob

TurboTahoe · 02-03-2010, 02:22 PM

How does moving to a solid axle keep the tie rods and pitman/idler arms from wearing out?

-Rob

**Pepperidge** · 02-03-2010, 02:41 PM

I would go ahead and replace the pitman arm while you are at it...and make sure there is no steering box slack...there are beliefs that this can cause the pitman arm to break when using these braces...

02-02-2010, 06:05 PM	#1
TurboTahoe Recruit My Photo Album Join Date: May 2008 Member Number: 151 Posts: 669	Cognito Motorsports Pitman and Idler Braces Hi guys, You may recall a thread discussing how to 'beef up' the front end of our trucks. I know that my Tahoe has very loose and imprecise steering, and on freeway at speed, it can be rather unnerving. Also, my tires are wearing unevenly. Perhaps you guys have similar problems. One of the members suggested Cognito Motorsports' Pitman and Idler braces. I've been searching and have found some really good information I thought I would share. First, here's a very detailed explanation of what these items are, and how they are installed: http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billav...nito_steering/ In addition, the steering on our trucks tends to get more sloppy over time, sometimes not a lot of time. The Cognito kit supposedly helps to mitigate the wear, but one of the big culprits, especially when installing bigger wheels and tires, is the alarmingly loose steering, a result of an under-engineered idler support. Here's a solution to that: http://hendersonslineup.com/uncatego...2%80%93-ss175/ I took my truck into my favorite line up shop, and my buddy Chuck showed me how worn my steering assembly and the ball joints are on my Tahoe. Well, it looks like its going to cost several hundred to fix it all (2 upper ball joints, pitman arm, and tie rod ends.). Throw in the two items above (Idler Pivot replacement and pitman/idler bracing) and we're now up to about $1500. Whew. Doing the repairs and upgrades promises to: Eliminate the steering play Eliminate uneven tire wear Eliminate future premature wear but would be pretty hefty in price. What do you guys think? Does this sound like a good solution? Should I consider something else? Do you have similar problems? How did you solve them? Anything that is less expensive but as effective? Thanks, Rob __________________ 1995 2-door 1/2 ton Tahoe. Positraction 3.73, 4L80-E, 4WD, HyperTech chip, Flowmaster crossover/downpipe, hogged out intake, '97 air cleaner assembly with factory filter, 3" lift, #280 flex-a-lite fans, Centerline wheels, PowerSlot rotors, 185K miles. Hellwig swaybars. Rancho adjustable shocks, Heath PMD Isolator. 0-60 in 9.5 seconds. 1999 3/4 Ton Suburban. 100K miles. Hellwig sway bars. Flowmaster downpipe. Remote FSD with Kennedy 72" harness and SSDiesel FSD Cooler. PowerSlot rotors. Last edited by TurboTahoe; 02-02-2010 at 07:15 PM..

02-02-2010, 07:10 PM	#2
WarWagon Well it hits on 7 of 8... My Photo Album Join Date: Nov 2009 Member Number: 4905 Location: AZ Posts: 798	Without a lift the front ends on our body style wore out before 100K. Just ask yourself if it is cheaper to replace these parts at the miles you are getting out of them vs. the upgraded parts cost and expected life. __________________ 2008 "Two cards four swipes" 2500HD CC LB 6.6L 115K. Is missed. Totaled 1993 (Mostly rebuilt with 2010 stuff.) "Clunkie" GMC 4x4 Sierra 2500 LB 6.5TD scuffed piston, now a 6.2 turbo military surplus repower. 4L80E. 4.10 Rear. DB2 Mechanical IP 1/2 turn high. ARP head studs. 4" exhaust. Optima. Turbomaster 14 PSI max. Kennedy 9 blade fan and low temp clutch. HO water pump. Single 180 stat. New radiator and condenser - never goes over 215 now. Trax II 50 gal in bed tank. Towing 100% of the time. My pickup has hit more Elk than your gun! Another 1993 Chevy k2500 6.5 Diesel LB 4x4 project beater... To replace the GMC.

02-02-2010, 09:23 PM	#3
packratt Registered User My Photo Album Join Date: Jun 2008 Member Number: 692 Location: near Richmond, VA Posts: 784	If you decide to go with the Cognito braces, contact NorCal Nick. He's a vendor on the site that deals alot of these. __________________ 1998 Chevy K3500 Dually Silverado extended cab, 4x4, Tangiers Orange (soon to be another color when I can find the money) w/grey interior, 6.5 TD ("F" code engine), A-Team Turbo, vacuum pump delete, NV4500 through G80 4.10 rear, ZOOM High Performance Clutch, Rancho RS9000 shocks, SSDiesel 4" stainless steel exhaust, approx. 270,000 miles 215/85R16 DTR.com Dually Club Member #48

02-02-2010, 09:29 PM	#4
schiker Registered User My Photo Album Join Date: Nov 2008 Member Number: 2028 Location: Pendleton, SC Posts: 334	Does the Cognito stuff fit pre '99 trucks or the classic 90's era GMT-400 or whatever we are with the 6.5 trucks??? I thought our only options were quality parts, good grease, and regular sized tires. And use the bilestins or however you spell it shocks. I know big lugged mud tires that start to wear uneven then appreciably accelerates wear worse than milder tires for our trucks. I had a set of offbrand BFGoodrich mudder style tire wear out my front end and they were just 285/75R16's. I replaced tierods, idler, and pitman and went to an all terrain tire with better wear performance for the tires and front end. __________________ 97 Chev K2500 6.5, 5spd, ext cab, shortbox, ~180K miles, remote FSD(DTech), remote oil filters, boost, EGT, fuel pressure, Heath TM, 3" DP 4" Exhaust, Prodigy, B&W Turnover ball, 2" Rear wheel spacers, Sirius

02-02-2010, 09:42 PM	#5
chickenhunterbob Registered User My Photo Album Join Date: Nov 2008 Member Number: 2057 Posts: 51	Without no lift, huge tires...etc. the front end on my truck lasted 370,000 km. Tuned it up last Easter weekend. Lower ball joints are still good, replaced upper ball joints, pitman arm, idler arm, inner and outer tie rod ends and the connectors, (and outer CV boots) steers like a sports car again. I went with NAPA (OEM) parts and suspect I will probably never replace any of them again. My view is replace what's worn, some things seem to never wear out. DIY or pay, a few hundred in parts and tools...you're well ahead if you do it yourself. I don't think our front end needs beefed up, never heard of any big trouble with stock parts. __________________ '94 Chev diesel Last edited by chickenhunterbob; 02-02-2010 at 09:42 PM.. Reason: don't recall...probably

02-02-2010, 10:18 PM	#6
ak diesel driver Registered User My Photo Album Join Date: Feb 2009 Member Number: 2334 Location: alaska Posts: 2,931	If your paying someone to do it have them do the lowers at the same time. It will save you some dough in the long run. __________________ 96 gmc k2500 4" exhaust no cat, marine inj, #9 resistor, GL4, turbomaster, duraterms,-1.94 TDCO,FTB, remote pmd, isspro pillar gauges, kennedy opsu relay kit,141 block, 2 1000 w block heaters, 2 150w glue on oilpan heaters, 2 150w glue on transpan heaters, 97 K47 air filter , IP replaced at 229k ,gear drive set awaiting install, Parts for intercooler waiting to be installed 96 k3500 CC 6.5 dually 94 k2500 excab lb 6.5 parts truck 94 k1500 excab sb 6.5 plow truck 00 burb 5.3 wifes 70 Ford reg cab lb 428 cj richmond 5spd lockers 35s 75 Vette built 383 needs work 62 Tempest convertible way on the back burner project 85 Honda VF1000R 90 P30 Cummins BT4 work van 90 Int SA dump w/trailer 416c backhoe

02-02-2010, 10:40 PM	#10
Paveltolz 180A SFWO My Photo Album Join Date: May 2008 Member Number: 362 Location: Saratoga Springs, UT Posts: 259	I have a Rancho Rough Country 3" lift and 285 BF Goodrich tires. Prior to having the lift done, i reversed the Torsion Key turn up the PO did, replaced upper, lower ball joints, and everything between and including the outer tie rod ends with NAPA parts. 2 years later, the steering is starting to feel a little loose and last November I snapped a tie rod end prior to entering a curve with a nice 70 degree drop off. Fortunately there was a pull out area straight ahead before entering the curve because straight was the only direction it would go! The outer tie rod end had shattered at the pivot ball. On closer inspection of the whole assembly, it appears that the outer tie rod ends are at the limit of upward travel with the truck under full weight. This means there is nothing for the tie rods to do but go metal on metal as the truck unweights during normal or extreme suspension travel (I hope this is making sense). Solutions appear to be one of two things. Different lift kit (BDS), or drop back to stock to restore the suspension angles to a safer position. Oh yeah, two year old boots on new axles are torn...again, extreem angles induced by the wrong lift kit. I actually blame the installer more than I fault the kit, but that is a longer story. __________________ 5th owner of '96 K1500 6.5L "E-Bay Special". Heath 4" exhaust w/cross over kit, Turbo Master, Max E Tork GLE, HD Cooling Water Pump & Fan upgrade, 3 guage kit, Duraterm GPs, True Bosch injectors, D-Tech FSD/PMD. FSD moved to bumper w/PMD Cable ext, Lube Specialists Oil Cooler kit, El Rancho 3" Rough Country Lift w/BDS Shocks & Leaf Springs, 2500 HD Torsion Bars, Xenon Flares, DC1 Black 17x9 Wheels, BF Goodrich AT 33x12, XL 23 slot RunCool Hood Louvers and Side Vents. "De Oppresso Liber" 01 VW Bora TDI (Frau's) 40+mpg everywhere: 95 Passat 1.8 GLS

02-02-2010, 10:52 PM	#11
SmithvilleD Registered User My Photo Album Join Date: Mar 2009 Member Number: 2434 Posts: 601	There were a few threads that went around about a year ago relating to joint failures (as in joint breakage) on one or two trucks using braces like these. Believe they were the GM truck's the next generation newer than ours, but similar design. I don't bring this forward thinking that the braces were necessarily at fault. But I would do some searching to see if any cause/effect was figured out. Depending on how grown together your T-bars & lower control arms are, I guess you could yank the bars & then cycle the suspension thru it's maximum travels & steering angles, to see if any joints get put near/beyond their range of motion like the tie-rod angle situation described above. The braces look like a good idea. Tough to know if they improve durability enough to justify the cost. You might see if you can find anyone that's run the braces 50k + miles to see what their experience has been. __________________ 1995 K2500, 8600 GVWR, 6.5TD, NV4500, 3.73:1, 18:1, balanced, Fluidampr, DSG timing gears, '97 cooling upgrades, DMax fan - SD fan clutch, Kennedy TD-Max chip, 2100 psi/pop injectors, 4" exhaust, ceramic coated exh manifolds/turbine housing/crossover pipe, Autometer: pyrometer, boost, oil temp, oil press, fuel press, & water temp gauges, remote oil filter, B&M plate-style oil cooler w/ braided SS oil lines, 10 micron Racor pre-lift pump, Walbro FRB-5, GMTDScan Tech, Dipaco PMD -lrg heatsink frnt licence bracket in bumper

02-03-2010, 01:46 AM	#12
6.2 turbo Registered User My Photo Album Join Date: Jan 2010 Member Number: 5159 Location: pa Posts: 492	I've been down that road ,that is why my 97 has a solid axle,the 8 lug ifs seems to hold up better than the 6 lug. __________________ 92 chevy truck modified 6.2 diesel pro 52 turbo,16-1 compression,custom built injector pump, holley blue lift pump custom built injectors 3-1/2 inch downpipe ,5inch single stack,steel sbc flywheel.spec stage3 clutch, nv 4500,trans ,97 chevy truck solid axle and 5.9 cummins no fuel plate, 370 marine inj,valair twin disc clutch.

02-03-2010, 02:22 PM	#14
TurboTahoe Recruit My Photo Album Join Date: May 2008 Member Number: 151 Posts: 669	How does moving to a solid axle keep the tie rods and pitman/idler arms from wearing out? -Rob __________________ 1995 2-door 1/2 ton Tahoe. Positraction 3.73, 4L80-E, 4WD, HyperTech chip, Flowmaster crossover/downpipe, hogged out intake, '97 air cleaner assembly with factory filter, 3" lift, #280 flex-a-lite fans, Centerline wheels, PowerSlot rotors, 185K miles. Hellwig swaybars. Rancho adjustable shocks, Heath PMD Isolator. 0-60 in 9.5 seconds. 1999 3/4 Ton Suburban. 100K miles. Hellwig sway bars. Flowmaster downpipe. Remote FSD with Kennedy 72" harness and SSDiesel FSD Cooler. PowerSlot rotors.

02-03-2010, 02:41 PM	#15
Pepperidge Member Advocate Lead Moderator My Photo Album Join Date: Feb 2008 Member Number: 9 Location: Slidell, La Posts: 7,495 Member of Gulf Coast Diesel Truck Assoc.	I would go ahead and replace the pitman arm while you are at it...and make sure there is no steering box slack...there are beliefs that this can cause the pitman arm to break when using these braces... __________________ Pepperidge "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb deciding what to have for dinner. Liberty is a well-armed lamb." -Benjamin Franklin '01 GMC CC SB 4x4 D/A 12.977@103.98 on #2 EFI Live Tuned with "Moonshine" 484hp 935tq w/o lift pumps Suncoast Stage V, Twin Laing D5 Strong Lift Pumps, Banks BigHead, Ported turbo mouthpiece by Diamond Shocks, "butchered" stock Intake, 4" MBRP Exhaust, Sulastics Shackles, Mag Hytec Diff and Trans Pan, Correctrack Spacers, Centramatic's, TTT Mirrors, Retrax, 265/75/16E Dueller AT Revo's, Dakota Digital Gauges, "Dura-Max" spring clamps by Dura-Ration "Dura-Sump" Fuel pickup by Dura-Ration Member # 3 A(ACLU)

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